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Lin Minmay


Joined: 06 Dec 2000
Posts: 230
Location: Jerilderie

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2001 2:09 pm    Post subject: nameless Reply with quote
I basically have moved on from this board, however I just received an email from someone at this board, which forced me to return. I am unsure who, because they didnt "go" under their user name here. However I will keep their name to myself.

They showed me a URL;
http://members.nbci.com/shinji_2200/Anti_Eva.htm

An anti-EVA website. They said that I "should do something about it". They also stated that "that many people of this Madman board, are furious at the webmaster". However, 2 things spring to mind about this.

The First;
Is that it is none of our business what he believes, as long as he isnt ranting and raving illogically in the forums, it is irrelevant. He has justified his answer, and I am satsified with his resoning. I dont wish to change his oppinion, unless he tries to challege mine in an open forum, or private discussion. So no I wont do anything about it, cause 1) I cant do anything about it... lol, and 2) I see no need to even try.

The second thing;
Almost everything he says I believe is correct; look at this statement.

"He utilized shock-value; going to the lowest common denominator as he threw around body anatomy and religeous meanings, played hip songs about death as he turns everyone into liquid, rehashed some more, whined some more... Neon Genesis Evangelion was not about what it was anymore. It was Anno basically becoming Shinji; explaining to us (in small hints) why he's mad, taking his anger out at everybody who didn't get the message, and leaving everyone walking the cold planet confused for years on end."

This is ALL true, except "Neon Genesis Evangelion was not about what it was anymore". Obviously this person understood what NG was about, sure he didnt know about the technicalities of the philosiphy, but who cares. He saw what NG was telling him, it is true, the whole point of NG was Anno expressing himself. He understood that, many people dont. He just didnt like it, for every reason he stated he didnt like it, was my every reasons why I enjoyed it. We have different tastes. I enjoyed seeing Annos interpretations, he didnt. Simple as that. But he is hardly wrong, in anything he stated, he just stated the reaonss why he didnt like it.

HOWEVER the thing he IS wrong on (in my opinion) is that "Neon Genesis Evangelion was not about what it was anymore". The thing I believe he misunderstood was that at the end, suddenly Shinji personified Anno Hideaki. However from start and all the way through it always did personify Anno. He just didnt give a stuff about anyone elses oppinion. Thats a VERY valid reason.

However I read books and watch movies etc to gain another persons perspective. Thats actually what I search for when watching TV or reading a book, to get an insight into another world or at least another frame of mind. By the sounds of things, he is Bizzaro Access..... the complete opposite of me.
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Kermi v3.1 for Workgroups
Shaolin Shugogetten


Joined: 20 Jan 2001
Posts: 4073
Location: The end of the western spiral arm of the galaxy

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2001 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Now you see.. I made a point of not visiting that webpage, because I had the sneaking suspicion it would be full on inconsistent rantings based on the confusion of an individual who just didn't "get it".

Apparently I was wrong
As you stated, you believe everything stated. Reading over the example given in your post, I find myself agreeing as well, for the simple fact that this is generally how I felt, but couldn't find the appropriate words to discuss it.
Were I not failing in essay writing perhaps I'd be the scorned lunatic.

Chances are Anno was simply angry, angry at the world we live in today. It's hard to find a place where you're truly comfortable, and his upbringing, or some event within it has made him this way.
Perhaps the ending of NG:E was made first... a shattered representation of Anno in Shinji being assaulted on all sides by images of the ugly world he's a part of, everyone he's involved with blaming each other (and him) for thier downfall in life, because it didn't turn out the way they wanted.
Trace that back, back to a time when we're all innocent, and too young to understand what is meant by the terms 'evil' and 'good'.
An innocent child can brighten up any place.. wander carefree in a playground where the equipment is defaced with ugly and offensive graffitti, because they don't realise what it is...

Then the kid learns how to read.

Anno may have traced his life back to this time.. then used the emotional heartbreaks of death, betrayal, adultery (represented as piloting eva to kill angels, Touji being injured at the proxy hands of a friend, the entire situation with Asuka lusting after Kaji) in order to represent the things that change a person and shape us into what we are.

If you look at it not as action, not as images, not as people saying and doing things.. but as themes, such as one may digest Shakespeare for your highschool English class, it's not difficult to see this is true.
While I have doubts in my own theory that Evangelion was reverse-engineered from Final Genesis, it's not an impossible scenario, is it?

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Access
Lin Minmay


Joined: 06 Dec 2000
Posts: 230
Location: Jerilderie

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I very much compare NG to Shakespeare and other great literal writings. The study of the human element has made Shakespeare plays stand the test of time. Most people who study NG, can easily see how NG could be studied at a University based level, just as Shakespeare is. I enjoy great litriture, for this unique view one gets of the human element.
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Atte
Lin Minmay


Joined: 22 Jan 2001
Posts: 222
Location: Cairns, QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do... But I am inclined to agree with you on nearly all of your points.

The thing about the site is, he is voicing his views in a way which is to... rub it in fans faces. I mean..."True Evil" ???

It is true that he does see the series nearly as what it is but because he does not get the deep and meaningful stuff he prefers to insult the series. I call people like him, "People without anime minds". People who cannot stand or understand anime do not have anime minds. I am pretty sure that nearly everyone at this bored has an anime mind... which.... stands to reason I guess seeing as if you didn't like or understand anime you would not be writing on a message board discussion....

Perhaps I was a little quick to act before when I posted about his right to remain silent but.... A person who decides to go out and discriminate against a writer, some artists and Neon-Genesis Evangelions, just because he did not understand it really makes me mad...

You know what I mean?
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Access
Lin Minmay


Joined: 06 Dec 2000
Posts: 230
Location: Jerilderie

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Show me any evidence ANYWHERE, that he did not understand NG?

>>>does not get the deep and meaningful stuff<<<
I think he certainly does, its just that he doesnt not enjoy it. That is my point, he understands everything clearly, he just did not like it. And I can clearly see that.

>>>I call people like him, "People without anime minds". People who cannot stand or understand anime do not have anime minds.<<<
Evangelion is different to most Anime out their. most anime is appreciated on a physical based level, ie for fight scenes, action packed scenes, echi, spectacular storylines etc. Philosiphy is not a prerequesit. Disliking Neon Genesis, does not make him not like Anime, he also obviously stated a wide variety of Anime he enjoyed...

I dislike 90% of Anime in the world. Does this mean I dont like Anime. I dislike 95% of whats on Televsion. I dislike 90% of all movies. But this does not mean I dont like, TV, Anime or movies.

I dislike, DBZ, Sailormoon, Pokemon, Diggimon, Slayers, Techi, Cystaltania etc etc. Any anime which is unserious I dont really appreciate. But this does not mean I dislike Anime.

>>>A person who decides to go out and discriminate against a writer, some artists and Neon-Genesis Evangelions, just because he did not understand it really makes me mad... <<<
That is an incorrect statement. IF someone didnt understand something, and hated it, yes that could be considered wrong (even though most of us do it everyday). HOWEVER this person has not conveyed to me any such lack of knolwedge. I think he understands NG fine. He just didnt appreciate it. just as I dispise Anime for being unserious.

>>>The thing about the site is, he is voicing his views in a way which is to... rub it in fans faces. I mean..."True Evil" ???<<<
He wasnt being 100% serious, it was ovbiously a satirical piece, using bulesque, exaggeration etc. to bring his point across. Satirical pieces are found everywhere. This is like complaining that poltiical cartoons make Johnny Howard look like a monkey or mouse. Its just the satirists way of conveying his point to the audience. I to act like this, among superficial NG fans. Sure its arrogant, but its not illegal.

Im summary;
This guy loves anime
This guys understands NG
He just didnt like NG
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Shijima
Hajime Saitou


Joined: 04 Dec 2000
Posts: 169
Location: Gehenna

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just scoped the website...*shrugs*...and the big deal is...?

I fully agree with Access' assessment of the author's understanding of EVA and Kermi's thematic assessments, however I'd say the 'hate' and frustration he has for Anno comes from a very different place.

quote:
And it was basically just Shinji (Anno) shoving his own personal angst at us. Had it been something plausable (like Shinji finally kicking his dad's ass) or comedic (like a spin-off starring Shigeru "The Man" Aoba), it would be fine. But NO! Anno and Gainax had to be artsy/cheap/what-have-you about the ending, stating that "there's no definite answer, so quit looking for it you losers!"

"You losers must be dumber than I can even fathom! You're still looking for a definite answer?!" is what he's yelling.



Don't you get the feeling this guy actually loved the series up until the final two eps? He goes off the deep end when the ending isn't plausable(sic) enough for his liking. He really wanted that definite answer and the possibility that a subjective answer supercedes an objective one in this case crunched his gearbox badly. It just doesn't fit in with his view of how the world should work. He then converts the suggestion into a deliberate (and personal) insult by Anno. So he retaliates "in kind"...he ends up "shoving his own personal angst at us".

Interesting to see that some of this board's members' reactions to the website do exactly the same thing. Mostly, both reactions remind me of how some fundamentalists brooke no dissent when it comes to a religious dogma.

I'm in no way at all suggesting that the website's author or those offended by it are deluded, insane, evil or even wrong because they're not. Atte, I can appreciate your feeling mad but like Access, I don't think the author's 'hate' comes from a lack of understanding...I'd suggest it's more of a personality clash. You can be calmed in the knowledge that at least what you got out of EVA affected you positively. Let the dead bury the dead.
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Dratsta
Doraemon


Joined: 14 Jan 2001
Posts: 42
Location: Taupo, New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2001 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by Access:

The second thing;
Almost everything he says I believe is correct; look at this statement.

"He utilized shock-value; going to the lowest common denominator as he threw around body anatomy and religeous meanings, played hip songs about death as he turns everyone into liquid, rehashed some more, whined some more... Neon Genesis Evangelion was not about what it was anymore. It was Anno basically becoming Shinji; explaining to us (in small hints) why he's mad, taking his anger out at everybody who didn't get the message, and leaving everyone walking the cold planet confused for years on end."

This is ALL true, except "Neon Genesis Evangelion was not about what it was anymore". Obviously this person understood what NG was about, sure he didnt know about the technicalities of the philosiphy, but who cares. He saw what NG was telling him, it is true, the whole point of NG was Anno expressing himself. He understood that, many people dont. He just didnt like it, for every reason he stated he didnt like it, was my every reasons why I enjoyed it. We have different tastes. I enjoyed seeing Annos interpretations, he didnt. Simple as that. But he is hardly wrong, in anything he stated, he just stated the reaonss why he didnt like it.

First of all the Religious part of NGE is simpily a storyline filler. it has nothing to do with Evangelion. Second of all he didnt want to create eoe. His Ending to Eva was the ones he made orginally. The japanese public didnt not like this ending. Maybe because they didnt understand it.. i dont know ive never talked to any japanese NGE fans. But i think he made eoe brutal like that because of the way the series was. I belive it was you who said that ep 25 and 26 TV are the true meaning of evangelion. The series was just for character building. The Eva's and all the other stuff are just to make it watchable. Anno put all of his personal feelings into Shinji Ikari[Its in One of the Graphical Novels..]. Shinji Ikari is Hideaki Anno. It is how he was feeling. what he was thinking. Watching Evangelion is like being able to take a look into the Human Mind to see what others think. Now that i have watche 25 and 26 TV more i realize it is a better ending. it is how gendou wanted the Instrumentallity project to go. As you said ( i belive) Gendou and Yui wanted the perfect world for shinji. Even though he was a right ******* i do belive he loved shinji and Yui very much. I belive he mentioned something about Gendou having affairs... it was Naoko Akagi and Ritsuko Akagi which did this... not Gendou. He Mentioned that he belived Naoko killed Yui. Yet she was absorbed into Unit 01. not really killed as such. this may have been to protect shinji as they knew he was to be the pilot of Evangelion Shogoki.

HOWEVER the thing he IS wrong on (in my opinion) is that "Neon Genesis Evangelion was not about what it was anymore". The thing I believe he misunderstood was that at the end, suddenly Shinji personified Anno Hideaki. However from start and all the way through it always did personify Anno. He just didnt give a stuff about anyone elses oppinion. Thats a VERY valid reason.

However I read books and watch movies etc to gain another persons perspective. Thats actually what I search for when watching TV or reading a book, to get an insight into another world or at least another frame of mind. By the sounds of things, he is Bizzaro Access..... the complete opposite of me. Since i have become older ( and if you like more mature) i too have started doing this. when i listen to songs now.. i analyze the lyrics in my head to try and see what the writer of the song is thinking. Of COurs i dont like Pop musik.. the song have no meaning,... I listen to Rock and Classical (weird combo ne?) But it is a good way to do things.. Maybe this is why i posted that url to the board (i didnt send it to you) ..beacause he hated something that i love so much (call my crazy if you want.. ill just tell you to **** off ).



One thing i do Agree upon from the creator of that paticular page is the fact that Evangelion leaves you Sad and depressed, which it does.. Only if you understand it. You may understand it in different ways however.. It might be influenced by ones particular life..

"Don't you get the feeling this guy actually loved the series up until the final two eps? He goes off the deep end when the ending isn't plausable(sic) enough for his liking. He really wanted that definite answer and the possibility that a subjective answer supercedes an objective one in this case crunched his gearbox badly. It just doesn't fit in with his view of how the world should work. He then converts the suggestion into a deliberate (and personal) insult by Anno. So he retaliates "in kind"...he ends up "shoving his own personal angst at us"."

Personally i belive this guy didnt like eoe..He might have just been a fan that liked the Eva Battles or maybe he liked the fan service (and hey who doesnt? ) but i belive his disgust is at Eoe. Maybe he is a Christian ( no offense to any Christians here) and got offened by the Religious non important tones. I myself dont belive in god nor anything relgiously related . so it doesnt offened me at all.
Btw if you dont pick up on thsi **** dont ***** at me... i often mumble **** out


------------------
Please Visit My Evangelion Site!
http://Evangelion.shaydee.net

[This message has been edited by Dratsta (edited 23 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Dratsta (edited 23 January 2001).]
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koolkabanna
Hajime Saitou


Joined: 02 Dec 2000
Posts: 141
Location: Australia-Tasmania-Hobart-Moonah

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am... somewhat quilty of holding a biased negative point of view of this persons opinion up to the point of reading the site...
yet now... (feels somewhat guilty for an ethos violation here... not to be judgemental)... He is right people... I almost agreed with him as he has a very convincing argument to validate his strong POV.

But... I still... *sigh*...
(perhaps Im more judgemental then I hoped)

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'Lancia Longini Forever'
NGE is more than an Anime... Its an Experience
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Access
Lin Minmay


Joined: 06 Dec 2000
Posts: 230
Location: Jerilderie

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2001 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In my oppinion, NG doesnt leave me depressed. NG was Annos life and how he was depressed, but in the final 2 episodes it presents to the audience that life is worth living. It showed that we can live in a world of pain, and still be happy. Shinji realised this.

Shinji: I hate myself. But, I might be able to love myself. I might be allowed to stay here. Yes. I am nothing but I. I am I. I wish to be I. I want to stay here! I can stay here!

People: Congratulations!

Shinji: Thank you!
Thank you, my father. Good bye, my mother. And to the all the children, Congratulations!

Does this sound like a depressive ending. Sure Shinji admitted that he is not vialy important in the world, but he thought he could only exist piloting EVA's saving the world. However he realised he could be happy, reguaurdless of everything. I believe it is a very uplifting ending.

A friend of mine who studys Phychology said, that the last 2 episodes would be a brilliant way of helping the depressed. A oppinion I once read sais something like, him and a group of friends sat around and watched NG. The people who expericed trumas in their life and really effected them. NG brings up almost all the common signs of depression, and at the end shows the resolution to this. N

G is uplifting, but that is only if you aprpeciate the ending, and not first 24 eps which express shinjis turmoil.

Summary
NG consists of Hope and Turmoil.... and shows that life is worth living.
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Hyper C
Akiha Tohno


Joined: 08 Feb 2001
Posts: 2933
Location: Dreamland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2001 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by Access:


Summary
NG consists of Hope and Turmoil.... and shows that life is worth living.



very true. Possible the main reason why I loved the final 2 episodes so much was becuase of how well it conveyed what Shinjis life had become as well as showing what it pottentially be as well as showing Shinji deciding that he can take the 'alternate path'

The contrast that was made between Shinjis closed off personal space and one of the many possible realitits was amazing. It showed off just how much Shinjis life sucked but also that it didnt have to, in fact, Auska summed it up pretty well by saying "what are you stupid? havent you yet realised that its all in your immagination you megadork!"

The world can only be as we percieve it. Eva taught me that. And so long as your perception is right life can be happy

Hyper C (who is currently waiting for Access to come in and rip this post appart as he has a little habbit of doing )

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Captain_Ginyu
Lin Minmay


Joined: 30 Nov 2000
Posts: 203
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2001 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So this guy don't like eva.......So what?? I don't like lots of things. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and this guy should not be condemned for voiceing his!
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Kermi v3.1 for Workgroups
Shaolin Shugogetten


Joined: 20 Jan 2001
Posts: 4073
Location: The end of the western spiral arm of the galaxy

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2001 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A one and a half line summary of this entire thread. Well done Captain.

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Atte
Lin Minmay


Joined: 22 Jan 2001
Posts: 222
Location: Cairns, QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2001 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh well... I guess you have me there... and everywhere...


... It seems that my obsession with Eva is getting to me oh well...
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