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The Final Genises!



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The Final Genises!
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LiL GoHaN
Washu Hakubi


Joined: 30 Nov 2000
Posts: 377
Location: Frankston,Vic

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2000 3:55 pm    Post subject: The Final Genises! Reply with quote
Was very poor.But cane someone tell me what it's about.I just got too boring for me to stand at 4am. did it get any better? I turned it off when Shinji was sitting in a chair and Misato appears. I am the Misato in Shinji's mind....... then I turned off.
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mrbigshoot
Doraemon


Joined: 30 Nov 2000
Posts: 8
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2000 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
its based in the head of shinji's mind thats why its all over the place. rember there are to selves to a self. the self that is and the self that obsverebs the self.
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Kermi
resonance cascade


Joined: 17 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2000 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually there are more than 2...there is a self for every self that observes the self.

Shinji must realise this and come to terms with the self that is himself in order to understand humanity, and (in my opinion) prove to reality (or perhaps God) that humanity deserves to survive, preventing a third impact occurring.
We see the Third Impact in the movie End of Evangelion not to be the destruction of mankind, but instead [i]unity[i] of mankind, so it's not the Judgement Day that SEELE conned everyone into thinking it was.

However, the combination of all 'selves' still brings all of humanity to an end of sorts, bringing all people to the divine evolution, I guess you might refer to it as 'heaven', the place a person goes when they cease to be human.
In this, Neon Genesis, (Final Genesis) causes us to doubt the origins and meaning behind life and creation, and what death, heaven, and God truly are.

Of course that's just my call on it, there are thousands of possibilities.

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Kermitron Enterprises
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YeLLoW MoNKeY
Yoriko Nakaido


Joined: 04 Dec 2000
Posts: 3114
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2000 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
r u talking about the last episode of evangelion?? that sucked a§$ - i mean, instrumentality my a-hole

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formerly known as SSJ4 Gogeta
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Shinannth
Shiki Tohno


Joined: 03 Dec 2000
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Location: NSW

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2000 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's why the movies are so much better.. they replace the last two episodes of the TV series.. apparently they had to have those ****y [heh, sorry, that just came out automatically - replace it with 'pathetic'] tv ending episodes, because what they really wanted to show (the movies) were too violent and gory to have on tv <- *shrug*

anyways...
Shinannth

[This message has been edited by Shinannth (edited 06 December 2000).]
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Access
Lin Minmay


Joined: 06 Dec 2000
Posts: 230
Location: Jerilderie

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I pity u, u dont even fully appreciate EVA... I imagine u would be watching EVA for the Action or something pointless like that. How can someone watch EVA and hate the last 2 episodes... that was the whole point of EVA. Anno Hidiaki (Sp?) the writer and director of EVA... was facing a serious case of depression.. and EVA was his expression and outlook on life. The first 24 episodes were a lead up to the last 2.... EVA IS basically the last 2 episodes.. without them it is pointless.

The whole point of EVA was to reflect the characters developments... and show the inner turmoil faced by these characters. Thats what made it so interesting... the philosophy between the characters, this human element. Each character goes through intense conflict and turmoil which eats themselves away many of the characters suffer from surveer cases of depression.... Ep 1 - 24 was a lead up to the last two eps..... a giant gap was intentionally left. 3rd Impact had occured the merger of all people... to complement our souls.

For at the core of all people we are empty man yearns to learn about his existence.... but never is complete so... to irradiate this emptiness the complementation of man is shown a true paradise. For what true paradise is their.... one without conflict, sadness and pain... however to eradicate them would irradiate what it is to be human... by some means of devine fate Shinji was left to make the decision the last 2 episodes reflect this decision. At the end of it all after evaluating all what has occured, with all the pain Shinji had faced he bravely decided that man could live in a world of pain.. for to irradiate pain would irradiate love, happiness and what it is to be human this is the point where Shinji adopted all attributes of the siphroth... being the bravest character in EVA... redeeming himself for a life time of drifting.

In reality if we evolved we would only be angels... mindless, senseless, beings.... in a pile of primordial soup only relying on instincts. Just saying that u didn't like EVA cause of the last eps presents to me that u only like EVA for the reality/physical side.... Anno surveere case of depression is what makes EVA interesting.... this Human element... the issue of what is life and intelligent life. The Qabbalah(Kabbalah) is the underlying tone under EVA... and it is used to show the progress of Shinji.... it is the philosophy used in EVA... and I am only scarcely aware of the complexities of the concept.

On the physical side... of course the obvious statement is that their are religious references but that is only on face value... yes their are references from Qabbalah, Christianity, Buddism, Judaism, Shinto... however they only added to the theme of EVA... it was not the focus... Christianity is NOT the only religion used in EVA.... it is in my opinion one of the least used...

The movie End of Evangelion (EoE) was made to please the superficial fans... a cry from the crowds wanting a more realistic end to EVA... hence the movie... however rather good... and consistent with EVA... it focused on the reality side of the events of 3rd impact.. of course I would of been happy not knowing exactly what events took place, but still Anno had it all planned out anyway.. in Ep 25 26... clues were let to the events of what takes place in EoE... e.g. Misato Shot... Ritsuko laying in LCL, Asuka under water in Unit-02.... this was an intentional tease to **** of those that only like EVA... for the physical events.

EVA has been considered by many people that it could EASILY be taught at a University level. The movie and the series complement each other. 3rd Impact is a difficult thing to descibe and I dont think Anno could possible descibe what he felt but he did a very good effort in the ep 25 and 26. The movies were planned to be bigger, more flasher, and more action, with a larger budget then what the series was. That is fine... but EoE is nothing without ep 25 and 26 to back it up.

Shinji is a distubed individual he has killed the one person who he understood fully he is fears Rei because of knowing that it is not the REAL thing... he fears Misato because he wont let anyone get close to him. However Shinji does have... how do I say... almost a preset destiny with Auska... I would almost say that it is destiny that they end up together. In the series tention is formed between the two and even adolensent sexual tension... kissing. They do care for each other... even if neither will admit it. Shinji had no respect for himself because he believed that if anyone really got to know him they would hate him.. and that was somthing he feared. This was brought on from such a low level of self esteem believeing he is not worthy, since being pushed away from his family... that he is onyl worthy if he pilots EVA.

In the series when the statement posed to Shinji is that this is the world we he descides mankind's fate... it was expressing what would happen if mankind did evolve... he expressed that he didnt want the world were everyone died.. and 3rd impact is very closely related to death. Eventually by the end of the series Shinji understood that he could live on without the mergeure of eveyone... he could exists in the real world... he did not fear people as much as he did... it was the relisation of the errors of his previous actions which caused him to reject the mergure of mankind.

I will admit that it would seem that the series did end on a lighter and happier note than the movies did. EoE was definetly darker.. but I would not call it a sad ending. I rather see that EoE ended with the sign of renewed life... of hope... of a new beginning. Yes the world may of evolve or it may return to how it was. But if it evolved and Shinji and Auska are left on Earth it shows a sign of new life. When Noah's Ark got flooded and him and his wife reached the 'new land' in the bible it was not a sad story is one full of promise and hope of a fresh start. If Mankind returns to how it was it still is not a sad ending.... in time all will be well. Either way it is not a sad ending.

I dont think that the movies or the series descibe 3rd Impact as 'heaven'... yes it is certainly could be argued it is bliss. A world without pain or suffering in the movie Shinji is overwelmed by the temptation of 3rd Impact but... he just relises to himself that this is a world without pain and suffering but is also deprived of love and happiness. This relisation that 3rd impact is not what he believes mankind should have is expressed in the series. This is where the series fits in. Yes defineltly the series had time to express many issues while the movies only brought up the fact their would be no love. However this is not an inconistancy. As I said early the series and the movies complement each other. And at annaylsing EVA at this depth that connection between the two is even more visible.

No she knew entering EVA was a sacrifice she never said that she would be without people... she said that she COULD exist without mankind... even without the stars and the planets. She did say she would be alone though. This is true if mankind did die from a bad 3rd impact irradicating mankind she would live alone... but she would be living. She wanted to be the soul of EVA because she had a chance to help Shinji, to look after Shinji... and yes she did want to express the idea that he did have a bright future... and this is true. Both in my oppion the series and movies ended in the concept of a euforic hopeful sensation. Yui would of live lonely for million million years if mankind had died... but with the mergure of mankind she is reunited with Gendou and i think that is a happy thought.

Ok well in summary these are my oppions and thoughts on NG character development. This is the true meaning of EVA, the expression of the characters thoughts and emotions. Dont except all this as dogma, many thing I say may well be wrong.. it is a very complex discussion to make about the characters because it involves a lot of personal oppion. But when I first approached this disccussion I realised I brought along a personaly bias and had to re write many things because of it. I do see their is slight variation between the two. But I dont think it warrants enough to call it an incostancy. I know this is long winded... but if u loved EVA enough u would of read this.... the thirst for knowledge is prepetual....

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Access

"Birth is the beginnering of Death"
"Death is the the end of a dream"
"Rebirth is the continuation of Reality"
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Kermi
resonance cascade


Joined: 17 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't recall saying that the last two episodes were all that bad, and I do understand them... but after watching the movies explain everything in much more clarity, I must say I prefer the movies.

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Super Saiyan Egg
Lin Minmay


Joined: 30 Nov 2000
Posts: 228
Location: Adelaide

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
WOW! How long did it take to type all that?
Were those the last episodes? I thought that we didn't get to see the end.
I have really gotta hire those tapes sometime.

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Access
Lin Minmay


Joined: 06 Dec 2000
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Location: Jerilderie

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"I don't recall saying that the last two episodes were all that bad"
They are what EVA is for.... it is pointless discussion EVA without them... they ARE EVA.

"and I do understand them"
No offense, but I dont think u do... I have been studying EVA for years.. and I am scarely aware of all the implications of the Kabbalah and the system siphofrica, and the personification of those siphroths.... Jacobs ladder has a lot more influence then u realise...

"... but after watching the movies explain everything in much more clarity, I must say I prefer the movies."
Their are 2 worlds to EVA the reality and the metaphysical... they are seperate... who cares about the reality based... that is only their for the superficial fans... their is a higher level.. and as soon as Anno removed the reality based side in ep 25 and 26 it highlights what type of fan u are. NG EVA is a piece of phlosiphy... and an Anime 2nd. The movie was almost pointless, only a continuation of the reality based side.

By having the series ending Anno made a point of not allowing the superficial fan to understand EVA... he basically was making a point that questions such as "Who is the first Angel.... what is Lillith?" etc were irrelevant and that the metaphysical side of EVA is what the key element is.

Of coruse the relgious implications and even the physical siphroth world are so much fun to annalyse. I very much enjoy it when people ask questions about EVA then are answered by people who read the inside cover of the Videos and accept that as fact. The Red Cross Book was not written by Anno, and even has several inaccuracies and factual errors thus it cant be trusted... so nothing in the RCB is correct.... However it is the mental aspect of EVA that is interesting... and that is what made it so popular.

[This message has been edited by Access (edited 06 December 2000).]
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Arael
Doraemon


Joined: 04 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tempting as it is (and believe me, it is!) to get into a full on jawfest with access in reply to Access' extremely...thorough commentary on the End of Evangelion, I simply can't type fast enough. I don't think I'd ever finish!

So, as succinctly as I can, at the moment; you say NGE is Philosophy first and anime second. I could say it's Psychology first, yada yada.
But I don't think I'd be speaking for everyone. NGE is what you get out of it and what you put into it. If it's giant mecha and fan service, good for you! If it's Carl Jung's theories made visual, good for you! If it's interpretation of ancient religious and mystical traditions, again, good for you!
As long as you enjoy it, it's good for you!

Could I suggest starting a thread discussing Eps 25 & 26 vs. the movies? At least that could keep the 'highbrow' posts in one place! j/k
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Access
Lin Minmay


Joined: 06 Dec 2000
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Location: Jerilderie

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"NGE is what you get out of it and what you put into it. If it's giant mecha and fan service, good for you!"
Indeed... I am only speaking from my oppion... I never set out to dismiss anyone elses oppion... I was merely stating that I pity people who dont love EVA at this level... for as u know its a wonderful feeling. IM sorry if I offended u with my view... but I just wanted to convey my feelings... I have just retired as an Evantologist for all the "real" fans have all such dismissed except for the big 6... and even those have moved onto other things.... namely Lain.. which is Awesome... and on many levels deeper than EVA.
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Squall
Doraemon


Joined: 02 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice work Access, from reading your post I can tell you have a very open mind and personally I believe you really need to have one to truly appreciate Neon Genesis.


Squall
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Arael
Doraemon


Joined: 04 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I totally agree with you, squall! I hope that my last post (as morassed in irony glurping out of a barrel as it was) didn't give the impression that I was being dismissive...I wasn't offended at all! You've got to be impressed with that scope of coverage and the extent of involvement. Access, you make a good point about the number of levels NGE can be 'read' on, but I'd still say that someone will like it for what they like about it and that in no way detracts from their enjoyment. We might know that as those deeper and more intricate levels come to the surface, they make a thing of beauty still more remarkable and more intriguing...I think you know how that can make you hungry for more. Still, NGE is a great piece of work, even as 'giant robots and cute girls'.

Answers come in schools, like fishes
Bright ones chased leave most untasted
Let those chances flee unwasted
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Shijima
Hajime Saitou


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well all that seems to have cranked everything up a gear!
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Kermi
resonance cascade


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I do understand them, I just came to like the movies better because I didn't like the last two episodes the first time around (at that point I didn't get it).
After watching the movies I understood final genesis better, but I still hold that attachment to the movies.
If you come down off your psychological high horse for a moment, you'll see that the final episodes aren't there just for the purpose of entertaining superficial fans, as you put it, but that they do go into representing the decisions Shinji has to make, they just do so in more depth to make it easier to understand.

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Kermitron Enterprises
Wreaking Havoc Since 1982

[This message has been edited by Kermi (edited 06 December 2000).]
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Access
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arael you post at Blizzards dont u?

And no I dont agree with that statement... that EVA is JUST as enjoyable on a basic level.... but anyway the truth is relative to every single person.
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LiL GoHaN
Washu Hakubi


Joined: 30 Nov 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice posting Access you have my congrats I will read it soon but now my eyes hurt.not enough sleep
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Arael
Doraemon


Joined: 04 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Access sorry I don't post at blizzards; just new to this stuff and so far I'm happy here

I'm going with Kermi on this one because even though the two 'endings' seem so different, they seem to be the same story told in different ways (I know you're out there Shijima, and stop laughing!! ) Remember, the first time you watch the series it's hard enough to grasp everything that's going on and then bang the final two hit you and you can say, "wtf, my brain's hit overload". It takes a while to sort itself out even if you can catch a shadow of the flavour that was there. Even after that, some people aren't gonna take to it because it's too abstract or convoluted. And it's crammed into two 25 minute episodes. It's a big ask for most anime fans to accept that.

Then you've got the movies; almost an hour more to work with but also a chance to frame the story in a more...consistent way relative to the series as a whole. So you get the action and the violence and the unambiguous fates of most of the characters. I'll concede that Anno-san may not have been entirely happy with having to redo the end. I can't otherwise explain how Shinji has become such a pathetic whiner or the whole deal at Asuka's bedside (there's a whole huge posting in itself!). In any case, the substance of the movies (how Shinji chooses to deal with the events, himself and all those around him) remains intact and a fair bit more accessible.

Whew, almost makes me want to tackle something easy...like Rashomon
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Shijima
Hajime Saitou


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
(rotf) Oh Arael don't even try blaming me for that! (old old argument and I won!)
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Access
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Indeed... the series and the Movies is the same story looked from two different perspectives.... the reality or the metaphysical... one for superfical fans... and the other not for the superficial fans... their is little to no inconsistencies between the series and the episodes... it is a surperb piece of work. EoE is the greatest movies I have seen (except Pi surprisingly enough) I will try to keep this post down... but yeah I agree...

But more accessible... i say it complicated matters.... it made people ignore more of the metaphyscial side by simplifying it. Anno didnt make EVA for the masses... it just turned out that way...
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~Trunks~
Orihime Inoue


Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2000 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
WHOA! thats one hella big post! (Arael)
I have to say i rather liked the last ep it sought of gives us an insight into how shinji thinks and feels and how he always is trying to live up to the expectations of others espcialy his farther i also can't wait for the movies!
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koolkabanna
Hajime Saitou


Joined: 02 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2000 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Enter Koolkabanna:

I believe that the Evangelion series is the epitome of what a "life" anime should be...

-I had a big speach to put in here but I just read over it again and it sucked-

Sufficed to say Access you are a legend mate!
Very few people seem to apreciate the depth of the final episodes, and thats a shame really. I thought that the series ended brilliantly. As for the films... well, honestly I agree with Access' theory that they really were just an upgraded, "physical ending" which kinda threw a great deal of the mental turmoil of the characters outta the box...

With that said and done, the Eva Films are still top notch in the aspect of what they are...

*shrugs nervously under the combined gaze of all in the room*

ahhh stuff it!!!!!
Who am I kidding the entire series is brilliant... end of story!!!!!

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Lancia Longini Forever
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Arael
Doraemon


Joined: 04 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2000 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome 'kabanna!
Anytime you want to post that speech is fine...that's what discussion boards are for! We'd love to read your opinions!
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fasad
Doraemon


Joined: 08 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2000 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
pimpin' !! nice work, access : )
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koolkabanna
Hajime Saitou


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2000 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arael:
Welcome 'kabanna!
Anytime you want to post that speech is fine...that's what discussion boards are for! We'd love to read your opinions!




Ain't it nice to be wanted
<@

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Access
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2000 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fasad... u found me... *shock* *horror*.... dont let this URL slip out... im really enjoying it here...... you know why... let me have fun...
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Mr Grieves
Doraemon


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2000 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Call me superficial ... even though I understood the final two episodes ... I was still deeply disappointed that they ended the series like that ... It was seeing the movies on a vhs copied from the laserdic that redeemed the series in my mind ... I really hope the movies get a proper release here ... for me and for the many people I now who thought the last two episodes sucked ...
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koolkabanna
Hajime Saitou


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2000 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Supposedly the films are being released "legitimatly" around march next year!

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Lancia Longini Forever
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Kermi
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2000 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, that goes on my Easter shopping list...

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Kermitron Enterprises
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Access
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2000 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"Call me superficial ... even though I understood the final two episodes ... I was still deeply disappointed that they ended the series like that"
Ok I will...lol... j/k

So I pose a question to you.... How DID the series end.... im not asking you... what actually happend... but what was so bad about it.. that made u think it was bad?

"It was seeing the movies on a vhs copied from the laserdic that redeemed the series in my mind"
bah! but i accept your oppion... (I mean their are still KKK and Nazi supporters... and ethically we should respect THEIR oppions, but I think this example is much worse... LOL)

"for me and for the many people I now who thought the last two episodes sucked ..."
Yeah and they all having missing teeth... and are still amazed by power lines.
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Access
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2000 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually to tell u the truth... I have never met anyone who understands EVA... and dislikes it... except for one fellow.... but during arguements... he kept telling me to
"%$#@ myself" so yeah... he wasnt the most intelligent of people. (Dont worry I can see the loop whole in this statement to... lol)
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Kermi
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2000 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well. I just watched it. (Again)

I loved it. Every tedious second.

This is my call on it folks, and yes, I expect to be called foolish. Again.

Basically, Shinji is pretty ****ed in the head. Mom disappeared, absorbed into Unit-01 while he watched, dad abandoned him to live with his teacher. He's grown up knowing nothing but hate and lonliness, so he just can't be around people, he can't love or be loved, hence his odd reactions to Asuka's kiss challenge, being invitied into Misato's home, Touji and Kensuke implying that Misato is his 'family'.
The entire instrumentality project is based on mankind's perspective that alone man is unfulfilled, and only by becoming one will the humanis psyche attain perfection.
However, that is not the direct link to Shinji's mental dilemma, it's padding. Background story. As was the entire Evangelion project, which is why I think that Final Genesis left fans unsatisfied. By itself, Final Genesis makes sense, but in my opinion, tacked onto the end of a killer mech-Animé like Evangelion, it didn't fit.

Back to my monologue.

Shinji plunges deeper and deeper into confusion, his self image is nothing, he lives in a world where he is ordered about, he has to be because his broken home and disorganised life leave him too timid to live his own life, despite it being something he craves, so he can escape imagined hatred from the people he observes as part of the world he lives in.
In short, Shinji basically has to stop being a whiny little shit and realise that people don't hate him, he must recognise affection for what it truly is.
When he repeats "I mustn't run away" he might as well be saying "I want people to keep hurting me" because damn, that's what he's doing. He somehow believes that love is a bad thing.
Then he gets over it, instead of retreating into his private mental shell where nothing can touch him, he makes the descision to 'live'.

The others respect him for that.

As for the movies, if I think back over it, alot of it really seems to be an in-depth explanation of Final Genesis. Everything that happened was implied as an event in the series, but the conclusion was different by far.
However, it's best I saw things this way, I actually saw episodes 25 & 26, then I saw the series up to episode 21, then I saw the movies. I didn't actually see Final Genesis after I watched the series.
NG:E could have had a different ending, as I mentioned above, Final Genesis doesn't fit in too well, but it is definately a masterpiece, and I believe that creating the series based on fighting, violence, and aesthetically pleasing female characters was the best way that the creator could draw attention to his ideas and have them published worldwide.

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Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2000 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"He's grown up knowing nothing but hate and lonliness, so he just can't be around people"
Actually he has grown taking on many characteristics from his father... just as Ritsuko has taken on many characteristics of her mother, and how Misato took on characteristics of her father.

"The entire instrumentality project is based on mankind's perspective that alone man is unfulfilled, and only by becoming one will the humanis psyche attain perfection."
Seele thought that man was a disgusting animal... and wanted to evolve mankind... However Yui and Gendou wanted to make a better place for mankind... they wanted a safer world for Shinji to live.. etc. My reasoning between what this emptyness is that we search for greater existance in our life, we are pointless beings drifting around, we feel as if their is no meaning to life........ whereas Angels have a point, they follow orders nothing else.. they dont have the free will do ponder over life... intelligence breeds questions... and emotions.

"As was the entire Evangelion project, which is why I think that Final Genesis left fans unsatisfied. By itself, Final Genesis makes sense, but in my opinion, tacked onto the end of a killer mech-Animé like Evangelion, it didn't fit."
Do u think that the last 2 episodes is more phlosophical then the others? It is only more ovbious and apparent to the viewer. The first episodes were a way of seeing tha characters in their real environment to see their reactions to specrfic stressful situations to feel and almost experiece their full range of emotions. I will admit that some of the pasts where their just for character introductsions and such, however are an intrigal part of NG. Anno never was planning on making the movies. In ep 25 and 26 images were shown of Asuka underwater in Unit-02, and Ritsuko and Misato dead lying in LCL and on the ground. A giant gap was left... I believe this was a msg from Anno.... yes their were two types of fans... the people that loved it for the phlosiphy and the people who loved it for the reality of EVA. I believe that Anno was expressing at the end, by leaving all these mysterys and not giving few answers was his way of saying, "Its not about who is the first angel, or what is Seele, it is about the characters and the way they feel, and if you dont like it, tough".

He actually said this quote;
"If you don't understand it [Neon Genesis Evangelion], it is your own problem."
(of course he said it in Japanese)

he didnt care about the superficial fans, he didnt even care about the fans... he had a msg to express and thats what he did. That was his aim from the start... only when he realised how superficial the public were getting tormeneted he was tempted by money and created the movies. I dont think the last eps are out of place, the STRONG phlosiphical points brought up in ep 25 and 26 are ALL brought up in ep 1 - 24. The last two eps are just a summary of the first 24.... I dont think they are out of place at all.

"Shinji plunges deeper and deeper into confusion, his self image is nothing, he lives in a world"
Only because it was easier than making a descion. He never had to make descions he just drifted through life following orders, then when he arrived at Nerv in Ep 1. He made a break though... he wanted to go against his father choice... he didnt want to pilot Unit-01. He tried to argue... he began to asking the "why" question. He showed the first sign of independence. Once again I cant explain this as well as others have, here is a extract from a good annalysis(edited by me however... sorry;

"So, the beginning of it all. The main theme
of Neon Genesis Evangelion, time and time again and throughout the series, is the question "Why?" As in, "Why do Man do what they do?" The deep question of this opening episode is that of responsibility. Why should Shinji pilot the EVA machine, something that he has never heard of or seen before that moment? Does he have a "responsibility," simply because he "can"?

Shinji first starts claiming, "I can't do it." He then changes to, "Why should I? I have nothing to do with it." Humans also give these reasons a lot in real life. "I can't do it." "I don't have the qualifications." "It is not my work." "It is not my responsibility." "It is somebody else's work, and somebody else should do it." "I did not ask to do this." Cumulating to the ultimate, "I did not ask to be born in the first place".

Does the fact that Shinji has the "capability" to do the work (while others don't) imply or even demand that he then has the "responsibility" to carry it out? Where is free will, when a person can be criticized by exercising his will not to do something that isn't his responsibility in the first place?

According to Kabbalist ideas, some responsibilities are actually part of the Great Work. The Kabbalah believes that the world (created by God) is created imperfect, and God needs humans to help make it perfect again. As such, humans are almost born with a sense of "original responsibility" (as opposed to Original Sin).

Ikari Gendo, Shinji's father, seems to subscribe to a simpler view -- that Man is defined by his "actions", not anything else.
In this episode, Shinji finds a temporary answer in a bandaged-up little girl (notice especially his need to remind himself, "I mustn't run away..."). Needless to say, this answer is so skin-deep and simplistic that it will not survive the next episode. Throughout the series, Shinji will keep asking himself, and everybody else around him, the same question, "Why?" He will keep finding answer after answer, and rejecting these answers almost as quickly as he finds them.

There are some who conjectures that it is Director Anno who is saying, "I mustn't run away." After escaping the world for several years, he came back to produce this series. Does Anno believe he has a responsibility as well? This will actually be probed to death in the last two episodes."

WOW! I love that one! Shinji was being weak in the seires but was showing signs of improvement... passing each aspect of the System Siphofrica. However still has depression.

"In short, Shinji basically has to stop being a whiny little **** and realise that people don't hate him, he must recognise affection for what it truly is."
Kaoru I think played a STRONG role in the descion Shinji made.... Kaour reminded Shinji of the greatness of mankind... the creativeity, the love etc. Shinji however just didnt want face the pain that he COULD receive if he opened up to people. Shinji hated himself, and thought eveyone would hate him, if they knew him. So never opened up. However in NG he did open up to Kaoru and such... but resulted in him having to kill Kaoru.... thats why it was such an important part OF eva.

"As for the movies, if I think back over it, alot of it really seems to be an in-depth explanation of Final Genesis."
No it just filled in the intentional gap that Anno planned to leave out.

"Everything that happened was implied as an event in the series, but the conclusion was different by far."
hardly... Shinji still made the same desion for the same reasons... and still showed signs of hope for humanity.... what is different? Oh the physcial side... who cares about that

"NG:E could have had a different ending, as I mentioned above, Final Genesis doesn't fit in too well"
All i can do is shake my head... :P

"I believe that creating the series based on fighting, violence, and aesthetically pleasing female characters was the best way that the creator could draw attention to his ideas and have them published worldwide."
I dont think it is based on that at all....

[This message has been edited by Access (edited 15 December 2000).]
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Vigil
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2000 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Access,

While I agree with a lot of what your saying, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to classify NG:E as it applies to 'superficial fans' and 'evantologists'. The fact of the matter is that Shinji, like all humans, is defined by his physical world and the people around him, just as much as he is defined by his own fears, hopes and desires. For that reason, while I acknowledge that the movies were created by Anno only out of desperation following public demand for them, I'd say that it's a credit to both his genius and his foresight that he was able to equip EOE with a story that was not only in keeping with the NG:E storyline and concepts but a story which actually adds to it.

Like you pointed out, references are made to the movie in episodes 25 & 26, clearly Anno had some idea of what would come to pass, at least in reference to Misato, Ritsuko and Kiel. The continued reluctance of Gendo to activate UNIT-01 throughout the end of the series and the growing unease of SEELE, manifested in both the continued production of EVA units and their attempts to re-infiltrate NERV made it clear that SEELE had very different ideas for complementation than Gendo and Yui. All of these ideas are expanded in the movie giving both new direction to debate by fans and evidence for the motives of characters within the series.

In conclusion, I'd say that once Anno committed to the movies, he did more than produce a 'a killer mech-Animé'. While episodes 25 & 26 focussed on Shinji and his trek towards internal acceptance, the movies concentrated on the new Genesis, as it applied to all the characters of the series. If anything, the movies give Shinji a second billing, focussing instead on characters like Gendo, Kiel, Asuka and, of course, Rei. While Shinji's experiences might be the drive of the entire series, EOE certainly has more to offer than a close up of Asuka as she gets ripped to pieces in her mecha.

There. That's the end of my rant. Nothing personal Access, I just think your giving the movie and it's fans a bit of a hard rap. Perhaps the movie doesn't hold the same power on a viewer from a psychological perspective as the last episodes may, but I'd say it more than surpasses these episodes in terms of, for instance, theology. And mass quotations from Stephen Chung's (masterful) Eva Contemplation guide (http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/schung/epiguide.html) won't convince me otherwise.
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Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2000 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
"While I agree with a lot of what your saying, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to classify NG:E as it applies to 'superficial fans' and 'evantologists'."
"Evantologist" its a p-i-s-s take... im not being serious when I use that word... it makes me sound to arrogant... I say Evantologist for people whos life has been changed because of NG....

"Like you pointed out, references are made to the movie in episodes 25 & 26, clearly Anno had some idea of what would come to pass, at least in reference to Misato, Ritsuko and Kiel."
Oh their heaps, HEAPS more... it is to smooth.. I believe that he already had the WHOLE thing planned... and just was going to leave it hanging... I used to believe that he was planning to make the movies all along.... however at the start he was unaware of the success NG would be... and making a movie would of been out of the question.

"If anything, the movies give Shinji a second billing, focussing instead on characters like Gendo, Kiel, Asuka and, of course, Rei."
The writers of Lain a similar Anime made a statement that Lain was trying to show how their is SO much they could of conveyed in the series but only had 13 episodes to do what they wanted... so touched on hundreds of topics.

This is the same as ep 25 and 26 of NG. Do u remmeber the start of Episode 26, where it says that they dont have the time to show all the events of instremnetality so will focus on only one, Shinji. Whereas Episode 25 focused on Shinji, Miato, Asuka, and Rei.... I think the movies took less focus of ALL the characters... and placed it upon the reality events of 3rd impact.

"While Shinji's experiences might be the drive of the entire series, EOE certainly has more to offer than a close up of Asuka as she gets ripped to pieces in her mecha."
Indeed, I agree that the movies are a great contribution to the series... we get to see a new side of Gendou etc... However I would of been just as happy without the movies.. the series is full enough to be independant. However the movies need the series. The problem I have with the movies is mainly that people see it as a replacement of ep 25 and 26.


"There. That's the end of my rant. Nothing personal Access, I just think your giving the movie and it's fans a bit of a hard rap."
Rant?... you know u were having a mature discussion.... no need to appologise for something neither of us regret you doing. My gripe with the movies ARE the fans..... and they always have been. EoE is the 2nd greatest movie I have ever seen..... but doesnt even land ANYWHERE near the series or Lain.

"Perhaps the movie doesn't hold the same power on a viewer from a psychological perspective as the last episodes may, but I'd say it more than surpasses these episodes in terms of, for instance, theology."
That is as logical as stating that the movie far surpases the last two epsidoes in terms of reality.....
However do u mean theology as in the Kabbalah (Qabbalah)? I tend to disagree, it dominates both the reality based world and the mentality based world of NG. Some have descibed that each character represents a siphroth.... also some have interpreted that Shinji throughout the series passes sort of tasks each one a step in the siphroth in each of the four worlds. However I can where you are coming from... but Theology was not the main feature of NG...... only adds to the awesome series..... and the phychological asppect is what hold mine and most people at this boards interest.

"And mass quotations from Stephen
"Chung's (masterful) Eva Contemplation guide
(http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/schung/epiguide.html) won't convince me otherwise."
Thankyou!! You found the site... excellent... you see every good information site I visit I copy and paste the info from the into word processing documents. Then I save them and print them out... I have folders and folders of Info. For months at other message boards I printed out every mature discussion taking place... I collect information and intepret it. I also from that same person have the character annalysis... which is awesome but some of the personifications such as Shinji as Yesod seems a little forced...

Besides I quote EVA Gods as often as I can.... because everybody on this board knows I am shocking at spelling, constructing basic sentences and such. And I am not going to pretend I am good at it... so I give out surpirior extracts from heaps of people, I always have.

[This message has been edited by Access (edited 17 December 2000).]
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Shinannth
Shiki Tohno


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2000 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by Access:

Besides I quote EVA Gods as often as I can.... because everybody on this board knows I am shocking at spelling, constructing basic sentences and such. And I am not going to pretend I am good at it... so I give out surpirior extracts from heaps of people, I always have.

[This message has been edited by Access (edited 17 December 2000).]



Then why don't you credit your sources like you should if you really value the writings of these superior people, rather than passing it off as your own? And if you're so worried about your 'shocking' spelling, the board does have a little spell check button at the bottom of each posting screen.

Quote:
And I am not going to pretend I am good at it...


So why then do you put that general feeling of condescending across then, and laugh at people's interpretations of Eva, because they mightn't have read as much on Eva as you say you do? Sure people might misinterpret it sometimes, but that doesn't mean that your interpretation is the one and only one that should be followed. You nearly take the enjoyment out of Eva for others when you do that.

*shrug*

Shinannth


[This message has been edited by Shinannth (edited 17 December 2000).]
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2000 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I second that motion!
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Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2000 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"Then why don't you credit your sources like you should if you really value the writings of these superior people, rather than passing it off as your own?"
I HAVE NEVER THAT I AM AWARE OF PASSED ANYTHING OFF AS MY OWN!!!!!!!!! I AM TAKING THAT COMMENT DEAD SERIOUSLY! Every thing I use I place quotations around!!! The reason I didnt source the extract from Stephen Chung's because I didnt know where I got it from. Did you read ANY of my last thread. I explained why.... I visit sites copy the indo into word processing document. At message boards I print and copy every intelligent post... ICQ chats I compile print and store in word processing files.... by the end of it all I have NO IDEA where most of my stuff comes from. I even thanked the guy above for giving me the souce to that extract!! Did you read my post?!? Your acusing me of things that im not guilty for!

"And if you're so worried about your 'shocking' spelling, the board does have a little spell check button at the bottom of each posting screen."
Oh know not just spelling.... I mean just general English concepts... you know... I have never been able to write well. I dont use the spell check because im lazy.

"So why then do you put that general feeling of condescending across then, and laugh at people's interpretations of Eva, because they mightn't have read as much on Eva as you say you do?"
Know that just it..... people read opinions on NG.... and thats it! They think because they have read it, it is true. When someone says an oppinion and you can tell it is not their own..... and they dont back it up.... well I will just laugh. Why believe someone else if it isnt proven with evidence.

"Sure people might misinterpret it sometimes, but that doesn't mean that your interpretation is the one and only one that should be followed."
No thats wrong generally people dont interpret it at all! And just read other peoples oppinions... anything I say I will back up with evidence... if use argue against me and evidecne supports your side more than mine... then so be it i would be wrong.

Besides dont be so hypocritical anyway.... I laugh at someones thread.... then someone such as Evamaster posts... sure use are all allowed to alaugh at himlaugh at him, how is this different. I just laugh when I know people arent thinking at all... I hate dogma... always have....

"You nearly take the enjoyment out of Eva for others when you do that."
Well I will try to be more consideret... however if someone says something, which they didnt think about.... then I am gonna laugh... I laugh at everything... I am an overly jolly person...

"I second that motion!"
Which bit, when he said the hypocritical statement or the one were he wrongly accused me?

Hey besides who was the one that opened up a thread and said basically "Ask me anything I am God, if I dont know it, then its not ment to be known".
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Shinannth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2000 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by Access:
I HAVE NEVER THAT I AM AWARE OF PASSED ANYTHING OFF AS MY OWN!!!!!!!!! I AM TAKING THAT COMMENT DEAD SERIOUSLY! Every thing I use I place quotations around!!! The reason I didnt source the extract from Stephen Chung's because I didnt know where I got it from. Did you read ANY of my last thread. I explained why.... I visit sites copy the indo into word processing document.



I did read your last thread... even if you don't remember where you got it from, if you use a passage verbatim that you didn't write, you could at least say so with more than just ""'s!!

quote:
Originally posted by Access:
"I second that motion!"
Which bit, when he said the hypocritical statement or the one were he wrongly accused me?



First of all, I'm not a he, I'm a she. If you're not sure, use 'they'

I'm /not/ saying that everything you say is wrong, I'm just saying, could you please lose the condescending attitude in future.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2000 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by Access:
Do u think that the last 2 episodes is more phlosophical then the others?



Of course they are...seriously, while the entire Instrumentality project conspiracy was implied in parts while the pieces were uncovered and revealed, I really don't see any philosophical aspects, apart from the occasional use of imagery to express moods.

Quote:
Kaoru I think played a STRONG role in the descion Shinji made.... Kaour reminded Shinji of the greatness of mankind... the creativeity, the love etc. Shinji however just didnt want face the pain that he COULD receive if he opened up to people. Shinji hated himself, and thought eveyone would hate him, if they knew him. So never opened up. However in NG he did open up to Kaoru and such... but resulted in him having to kill Kaoru.... thats why it was such an important part OF eva.


I'm not disputing that at all, Kaoru felt true omnipresent love for all things, at least that's the impression given, when Shinji understands that that 'love' extends to him as a person too, he comes to realise that yes, he is a part of the world just like anyone else.

quote:
"As for the movies, if I think back over it, alot of it really seems to be an in-depth explanation of Final Genesis."
No it just filled in the intentional gap that Anno planned to leave out.



I wasn't thinking straight when I wrote this, and I can't figure out what the hell I meant, so let's pretend I never said it.

quote:
"Everything that happened was implied as an event in the series, but the conclusion was different by far."
hardly... Shinji still made the same desion for the same reasons... and still showed signs of hope for humanity.... what is different? Oh the physcial side... who cares about that



Sheesh, what was I on? Yes, things happened differently, the eventual outcome and Shinji's decision was the same, but in the movies his decision messed up more than his own fragile mind.

quote:
"NG:E could have had a different ending, as I mentioned above, Final Genesis doesn't fit in too well"
All i can do is shake my head... Razz



I never said it was a bad ending, but I feel that it was an unexpected one, everything changes so dramatically in the last 5 episodes, it's so easy to get lost in the story.

quote:
"I believe that creating the series based on fighting, violence, and aesthetically pleasing female characters was the best way that the creator could draw attention to his ideas and have them published worldwide."
I dont think it is based on that at all....



Not based-on per se, but I believe that the 'action' side of Evangelion is what captured out attention, the philossphy is there at the end to confuse you and trick you into buying the tapes so you can watch it again. (j/k)

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Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2000 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
"if you use a passage verbatim that you didn't write, you could at least say so with more than just ""'s!!""

Well I thought thats what ""'s imply? A statement which I didnt say.... not all quotes need souces if not availible just as not all pictures need captions.

"First of all, I'm not a he, I'm a she. If you're not sure, use 'they'"
Sorry... i was making a generalisation.... Its just that I have only come across 6 female EVA fans that reguarly post in forums and well actually care about NG. So it wasnt that I was unsure... I didnt even consider the posibility I just assumed....

"I'm /not/ saying that everything you say is wrong, I'm just saying, could you please lose the condescending attitude in future."
k will do my best.... but if anyone is offended by my post..... I think are taking me to seriously.
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Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2000 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
"Of course they are...seriously, while the entire Instrumentality project conspiracy was implied in parts while the pieces were uncovered and revealed, I really don't see any philosophical aspects, apart from the occasional use of imagery to express moods."

Thats where in my opinion u misunderstand NG..... the phlosophical implications are as strong in the 1st ep as they are in the last. Its just that in the first 24 eps their is a physical world which distracts you. And I am not planning on explaing that in any more detail than that... in the words of Anno "If you dont get, its not my problem".....

"I'm not disputing that at all, Kaoru felt true omnipresent love for all things"
I wasnt suggesting you were, I was just elaborating on what you said. Or thought I was ;^_^

"Sheesh, what was I on? Yes, things happened differently, the eventual outcome and Shinji's decision was the same, but in the movies his decision messed up more than his own fragile mind."
I dont think things happend differently... I dont think that it messed up more than his fragile mind. I would suggest his descion in ep 25 showed more "messing up" of Auska, Rei and Misatos mind. That WHOLE aspect was removed from the movie and replaced by a fight scenes.... j/k (sort of)

"I never said it was a bad ending, but I feel that it was an unexpected one, everything changes so dramatically in the last 5 episodes, it's so easy to get lost in the story."
I never suggested you thought it was a bad ending... unexpected MOST definetely.... Alfred Hitcock the director/writer (I think was the writer anyway)of Physcho had a famous acrtress play the main role.... it was advertised that Physcho starring blah blah.... however a BIG surpise was that this famous actress was killed in the first 10 minutes... no one expected that.

Also Physcho was made black and white when Colour was availible Mr Hitchcock made this movie in grey to make it stand out... and it certainly did... I see great similarities between that anaology and ep 25 and 26. I like surprises.

"Not based-on per se, but I believe that the 'action' side of Evangelion is what captured out attention."
You may have implied that it was a joke... but I think you believe this statement. I love Technoman....(Tekkaman) not for the fight scenes but for the extreme anger and turmoil Blade faced.... he is such a wonderful character. I like DB manga because of the intense inner conflict in Piccolo.... Vegeta is ok... but has FAR to many charater flaws. Piccolo is an awesome character, because of his conflicting nature. Maybe I annalyse things to much... however I knew Anime was emotional intense etc... and knew NG would be no different so watched it... and LOVED the x-files type mysterys.
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Captain_Ginyu
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2000 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
quote:
"I second that motion!"
Which bit, when he said the hypocritical statement or the one were he wrongly accused me?

The bit where she said you shouldn't laugh at other people and that you take the fun out of it, everyone had a good old laugh at evamaster some even called him a retard, but for all you know he might be only 5 years old so give him a break, have a laugh to yourself but don't call him a retard!

Hey besides who was the one that opened up a thread and said basically "Ask me anything I am God, if I dont know it, then its not ment to be known".
I was being a cheese ball, if i had have known how to use smilies at the time it would have come across differently




[This message has been edited by Captain_Ginyu (edited 18 December 2000).]
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Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2000 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sure.....
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Shijima
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2001 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just keeping the thread visible
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Dratsta
Doraemon


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2001 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thought that the orginal eps 25 and 26 were better in some ways. I just didnt like the very ending of 26 in how shinji became so happy so quickly.

I did happen to LOOOOVVE the world with out EVA. That was soooooo damn funny i was ****ing myself! If they make another EVA it should be like that!

But both endings in Evangelion leave questions. Many people i know want to know the answers to questions like what happend to Touji. What happend to Kensuke , hikari etc. I admit i would like to see if Touji and Hikari did get to talk. But if there was more the EVA it should be filler eps. Like what happened in between the EVA battles with the angels. Like Hikari Visiting Touji.

It could be done. Very few times do the cast mention times over a long period of time. The only one is between Sachiel and Shamsiel when Makoto says "last time they gave us 15 years this time its only been 3 weeks".

Or another ideas (wonders if this is on topic) is a movie i short series from teh second impact to shinjis arrvial at nerv.. im sure that would answer a hell of a lot of Questions from the show (and probably create a hell of a lot more ^_^;


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Washu Hakubi


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2001 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You mass-quote, Access? Unbelieveable. I reckon that you really should accept responsibility for your past plaguerism, because you have in every single post displayed a very condesending tone, combined with fact that you never acknowledge defeat of any kind (in relation to your views). If you can't remember whom you quoted off, then just add 'quoted from an unknown source' at the start of your rebuttal(s). I don't buy into the argument of: 'If you can't tell whom it's from, then there is no responsibility to give credit' argument.
Quote:
not all quotes need souces if not availible just as not all pictures need captions.

I think I have said what I have needed to say here. In summation, this post sounds vitriolic because when I first came here I though you were a very clever guy who knew his eva; you probably do have a good grasp, but if you're going to constantly attack the opinions of others that have slightly different views to 'your' interpretation, use your own reasoning; your own material. It'd be a helluva lot easier and less time consuming to read.

Regroovinator.

(Postscript - I'm probably being overly harsh; it's 4:00 in the morning and I'm still downloading mp3's...I get a little sociopathic when I stay up to the wee hours of the next day, so please accept my apology if I sound too harsh. Heh...I shouldn't have even responded to this post, because this thread should have died ages ago...oh well...).

[This message has been edited by Regroovinator (edited 03 February 2001).]
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koolkabanna
Hajime Saitou


Joined: 02 Dec 2000
Posts: 141
Location: Australia-Tasmania-Hobart-Moonah

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2001 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Damn people give the guy a break!!! Access probably contributes more to this board than any of us!!!
If he mass quotes... 'whoop-di-doo'. It may not be in his own words but he has gone out of his way to share his findings with us. Yes he could have followed standard quotation etiquet but he didn't... WHO CARES!!! he has clearly stated that they are quotes and thats all we need.

How about you critics whom believe he should lose his condescending tone? Maybe you should try to get over your accusatory nature and let it be... Please people were on the same side here!

*chances are im gonna cop flak for this one*



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NGE is more than an Anime... Its an Experience
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Access
Lin Minmay


Joined: 06 Dec 2000
Posts: 230
Location: Jerilderie

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2001 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for your backing Koolkabana, that ment a lot.

"You mass-quote, Access?"
yep, just went through all my posts and discovered I mass-quoted 5 times on this board, excluding quotes from the series. But it is hard to define a mass quote, so I took it as a quote larger than one paragraph, sorry if that is not your definition.

"I reckon that you really should accept responsibility for your past plaguerism, because you have in every single post displayed a very condesending tone"
Why should I admit to plagerism because of a condescending attitute? If anything shouldnt I admit to my consending attitute for my condesending attitude? What has plagerism got to do with my attitude?

QUOTE FROM 'OXFORD COLOUR DICTIONARY'!!
"plagiarize: take and use (another's writing etc.) as one's own."
You accuse me of plagerisum, but I have never given the apperance that this work was my own. Do you even know what mass-quotes they are reffering to?! Or are you just accepting what has been said as gospel? I will run through my mass-quotes;

1) I quoted a HUGE passage from a magazine, and at the start stated;
"A statement by Anno Hideaki on July 10, 1995. Originally published in Anime FX Iss 10"

2) Another mass quote was from the Red Cross Book, "Well here is an extract from the Red Cross Book.."

3) Another was when I quoted the lyrics from Ode to Joy, "But I have the whole Ode to Joy... section translated... of Beetovens 9th;"

4) And a quote I took from ADV.. "ADV, the people who translated the Anime into English summed up EVA as;"

5) I mass quoted from a website I had long forgotten the URL for, however i did state; "I wont pretend that I can give u the best descpition of Ritsuko and Naoko... but I will quote the best one I have seen... For a Kabbalah study"

Then at the end of the quote I said;
"NOW THAT is an AWESOME description."

Shinannth was argueing against me, saying I should of put the URL address up... HOWEVER Regroovinator, 4 out of the 5 times I have mass quoted I have put an accurate source on my material. For the 5th I didnt have a source and you say;
"then just add 'quoted from an unknown source' at the start of your rebuttal(s"
But isnt that what I did?! I said it was by someone other than me, and it was the best desciprtion I have seen. THUS by the nature of physcics and the nature of literary meaning of the word 'Plagerise', I do not qualify for that label!

"combined with fact that you never acknowledge defeat of any kind (in relation to your views)"
Where have I been wrong? Find an example? I have always been argueing factually backing up my statements where possible, where have I not addmitted defeat? Where was the evidence so over whelming that it smashed my arguement? In the larger threads such aswhere we discussed Naokos personality their was no fact or right or wrong in a discussion. It all came down to oppinion, so how can u say, I wouldnt admit I was wrong, when their is no right or wrong? Are you just intent on making allogations at me, or do u intend to prove them?

"if you're going to constantly attack the opinions of others that have slightly different views to 'your' interpretation"
That is not why I act slanderous, regaurdlesso of my motivation, I created a whole thread to appologise to everyone for my attitude. Or did u not intend to check the evidence? Do u enjoy making open accusations towards me without exanmining the environment?

Needless to say, you are not prepared to make accusations. You speak of me have condesending attitudes, when you yourself are speaking in such frame of mind. Beside much of my attitude is in response to comments such as;
"r u talking about the last episode of evangelion?? that sucked a§$ - i mean, instrumentality my a-hole"
Which in itself carrys heavy negeative overtonnes, and I cant help feel condesentive, I also feel condesentive towards racists, dont you? Reguardless of this, I appologised for my orginal negativeity in this thread. What is your motivation here? To claim for yourself some glory?

[This message has been edited by Access (edited 03 February 2001).]
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Kermi v3.1 for Workgroups
Shaolin Shugogetten


Joined: 20 Jan 2001
Posts: 4073
Location: The end of the western spiral arm of the galaxy

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Whether he's conciously aware of it or not, perhaps he seeks to 'take you down', which in essence makes him better.. technically speaking. Alot of fans here look up to you, myself included.

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