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Faults reporting process update - DISCS READY 30/11



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Faults reporting process update - DISCS READY 30/11
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Blind Lawyer
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Faults reporting process update - DISCS READY 30/11 Reply with quote
Hi all,

Rather than post a number of messages in different threads, I want to give everyone an update and overview of the Faults Reporting process here at Madman.

I wanted to let you in on the new process, which has been in development this year and has been taking on board feedback from customers and staff.

It's important for all customers to note we listen to every report that comes in, and we ask from the outset for your understanding relating to turnaround times. A faults reporting and repair process is not a simple one; it's not as easy as making an exchange at your local store if it's a genuine fault.

Having said that, we know there have been some faults on titles outstanding for longer than expected and the changes we are currently implementing are bearing fruit - so I have good news on all titles, not just the high priority faults.

Before I go over specifics I want to just summarise the process.

First of all, if you think you have found a fault, check the head section of our Help file:

http://www.madman.com.au/actions/knowledgebase.do?method=browse&knowledgeBaseCategoryId=1#5

Alternatively check the sticky threads here in the Madboards Production and Technical.

If there is a reporting thread on the Madboards, please make use of it by adding only the relevant information such as your DVD model number, time of fault, or if you found a fault at all.

So the first step is that we ask you to check your information carefully and send us the details - this way we can verify the fault ourselves and the seriousness of error.

The next step for us is to verify the error and if we can replicate the problem and see it for ourselves, it is then entered into a project requesting a fix for Production to action.

This is the part where we've made good progress recently - most if not all titles that have been verified and entered as jobs for fixes have been done. Those that haven't, we are making a concerted effort to correct internally over the next few weeks.

The final step is replication. As replication requires careful scheduling, in addition to the time we have to allocate to fix any faults in our production schedule, we have to allow time for the next available replication run.

For high priority fixes, we will replicate individual fixed discs that we can supply via mail to affected customers. For more minor problems we will still apply fixes, but we may not be able to replicate fixed discs until either restocking the original, or producing new discs for the release of a Complete Collection.

Tricky stuff, right? Fortunately we're making headway and we will continue to work with Production and our Replicators to find the best ongoing solution to any faults that arise.

Of course, your feedback, information, questions and constructive criticism, are needed and welcome. Please remember these things take time. We'll communicate with you as best we can, but we cannot respond to daily requests - please be reasonable in your expectations of turnaround times and the form the fix will take. Not everything can be replicated as individual discs. Not everything can be tweaked to perfection.

Now for the really good news - check my next post for details of current priority faults and their progress. If I've missed something that hasn't been answered elsewhere, just ask and I'll edit the post to keep you up to date.

Thank you everyone for your patience and understanding - we're getting there!


Last edited by Blind Lawyer on Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:02 am; edited 3 times in total
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Blind Lawyer
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Priority titles: Reply with quote
Slayers Next - Disc One has an audio sync problem on the Japanese language track. FIXED and ready NOW!

Transformers Vol4, disc 3.3 - Audio Sync problem in episode Web World from the final chapter break. This fix to be verified shortly and individual discs to be replicated. FIXED and ready NOW!

Orphen 2 disc 4 - This is harder to track because it only affects some DVD players. We are investigating and it is a priority. Fixed discs will be replicated. Still in progress but not far away

Dragon Ball Collection v6 - Fortune Teller Baba Saga - FIXED! The chaptering problems when watching disc 2 in Japanese audio have been fixed and all new copies of this DVD are the fixed version. This fix fell under the previous system so we weren't able to pre-announce but fixed versions are now available. Customers may send discs (without case is ok) to the customer service address (end of post) FIXED and ready NOW!

Web Sales
Madman Entertainment
1-35 Wellington St
Collingwood VIC 3066

MAKE SURE you include name, address, and brief reminder of the issue.


Last edited by Blind Lawyer on Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:01 am; edited 4 times in total
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Akira112
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you mean post the problem here then you'll edit the second post to include the problem that the post brought up. Cause if you do heres one.
Fullmetal Alchemist vol.4 , major errors are their. Heres a few, the disk keeps on freezing just before the opening on episode 15 and 16, episode 13 continously stops then plays for a few seconds until the end of the opening. Its impossible to watch after episode 14.
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Creedy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like the sounds of Transformers being fixed. Maybe I can stay and buy Madman's version.
Good to finally hear something.
*claps*
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MEW49
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it really necessary to send in our faulty disc? I know $1 or $2 for postage doesnt seem like much but its also finding time to get to the postoffice and send them. Are there other options we could take?
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Dizrythmia
Misa Amane


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a legitimate question that even Tim Anderson himself refused to answer (well he stopped corresponding with me after I asked it):

Why do you still sell the DVDs with faults? For example DBZ 5.1 & 5.7 which were missing footage, & not fixed for 2 whole years (not dwelling on that point here though) were still being sold in retail outlets with the knowledge that there were problems. Why were they not recalled? Will someone give me an answer to this? It seems morally wrong to cheat people like that. I mean most people may not notice the missing footage so in say... 80% of cases you will get away with it, but it's still wrong.

This seems to be the place to get answers. Tim wouldn't answer me, but maybe this guy might be able to. So why is this?
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Blind Lawyer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Akira112 wrote:
Do you mean post the problem here then you'll edit the second post to include the problem that the post brought up. Cause if you do heres one.
Fullmetal Alchemist vol.4 , major errors are their. Heres a few, the disk keeps on freezing just before the opening on episode 15 and 16, episode 13 continously stops then plays for a few seconds until the end of the opening. Its impossible to watch after episode 14.


Please post details of your player model and whether you tried it in another player in the relevant thread for this title. We're looking in to this one and it's not as straightforward as it seems because not everyone is having this problem.

I guess that's part of the message - the DVD market - not just titles, but players, is so saturated now, that compatibility is harder to ensure because of the huge range of DVD players, which vary in quality themselves. To help us lock it down unconfirmed problems need to be discussed in their own threads.

Here, I'd like to know what you guys consider the priority titles from what's already known to have an error. There are individual threads (or you can start one) for what we should be referring to as possible faults.
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Blind Lawyer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dizrythmia wrote:
I have a legitimate question that even Tim Anderson himself refused to answer (well he stopped corresponding with me after I asked it):

Why do you still sell the DVDs with faults? For example DBZ 5.1 & 5.7 which were missing footage, & not fixed for 2 whole years (not dwelling on that point here though) were still being sold in retail outlets with the knowledge that there were problems. Why were they not recalled? Will someone give me an answer to this? It seems morally wrong to cheat people like that. I mean most people may not notice the missing footage so in say... 80% of cases you will get away with it, but it's still wrong.

This seems to be the place to get answers. Tim wouldn't answer me, but maybe this guy might be able to. So why is this?


I'm not sure why you feel namechecking Madman's CEO adds importance to your post. I'd rather you added some constructive criticism that could be answered. Your post above, and many posts I've seen, amount to little other than conjecture and negativity. You have your right to your opinion and there is a lot of validity in pointing out that we have made mistakes.

Noone's pretending that faults haven't occured, or even that we've been slow to respond to faults. However, we're past that point. we KNOW that there are faults with a percentage of our DVDs. This thread is about fixing them. Let's stay on topic here.

I don't actually see anything to respond to hear other than a conjectural moral judgement. Please give me an example that you know for a fact we've been aware of a significant fault, such as an indisputably unwatchable DVD, before shipping and let it go out. I don't think you can, because that's never happened. To suggest that a company of ANY sort (customer focused, fan focused, or not) would knowingly compromise it's own products is ludicrous. We spend a lot of resources on testing, quality control (and new measures are being considered here) and we're committed to spending more on fixing faults, so it's not a moral question whatsoever.

I'm happy to talk about improving our processes and arranging suitable fixes for the DVDs that unfortunately went to market and were later found to have a fault.
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Kirben
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Priority titles: Reply with quote
Blind Lawyer wrote:
Dragon Ball Collection v6 - Fortune Teller Baba Saga - FIXED! The chaptering problems when watching disc 2 in Japanese audio have been fixed and all new copies of this DVD are the fixed version. This fix fell under the previous system so we weren't able to pre-announce but fixed versions are now available. Customers may send discs (without case is ok) to the customer service address (end of post)


Could you please confirm that the missing subtitles issues were fixed too, as the major issue was the missing subtitle tracks on disc 2. Only the chapter issues have been mentioned as actually fixed, so I want to be sure on this point.
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Slykura
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can you please point out where this missing subtitle issue occurs on the disc as this was not made clear to us. The subtitle issue on disc one with the dubtitles is still there and we've not current plans to fix this but may do so in the future as it's only a minor problem.
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Kirben
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Slykura wrote:
Can you please point out where this missing subtitle issue occurs on the disc as this was not made clear to us. The subtitle issue on disc one with the dubtitles is still there and we've not current plans to fix this but may do so in the future as it's only a minor problem.


I meant the missing subtitles track on disc 1, it was so long ago that I posted the wrong disc number. There is only a single subtitle track on disc 1, episode 73 has only dubtitles and all other episodes have only literal subtitles.

I can't believe Madman have not fixed this subtitle track issue, the chapter issue was minor, compared to the issue of completely missing subtitles. It was never mentioned earlier that Madman planned to only fix the chapter issue, over a year has passed and Madman couldn't care less!
I bought the Dragon Ball collections to watch the Japanese versions of the episodes!
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Mad Anime Fan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Minnor thing I've noted on Vehicle Voltron collection1 wich has in 2-3 points during the episode for 1 second a flash of blue and red on the screen then it returns to normal.
I assume this is something to do with the masters as I have this episode on VHS and don't see this problem on the VHS copy.
It doesn't happen on any other episodes I've watched so far.

Just thought I'ld mention it.
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Sac
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kirben wrote:
I meant the missing subtitles track on disc 1, it was so long ago that I posted the wrong disc number. There is only a single subtitle track on disc 1, episode 73 has only dubtitles and all other episodes have only literal subtitles.

I can't believe Madman have not fixed this subtitle track issue, the chapter issue was minor, compared to the issue of completely missing subtitles. It was never mentioned earlier that Madman planned to only fix the chapter issue, over a year has passed and Madman couldn't care less!
I bought the Dragon Ball collections to watch the Japanese versions of the episodes!


I'd have to agree with Kirben(EDIT: I just checked mibs' page, and now I remember the chapter error), but the fact that episode #73 only has dubtitles was, to me and quite a few others, a MUCH more serious issue.

I can live with having to hear the horrid english dub for the one episode, but I was REALLY looking forward to having a fix for the subtitle issue.

BTW: On an unrelated note, if we have multiple disks that need replacing (In my case, I keep forgetting to send my Path to Power DVD in, and I also have DB #6 as mentioned above) , would we be better to send the discs in seperatly, or can we include both and just write on the envelope which discs have been sent?
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Dizrythmia
Misa Amane


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blind Lawyer wrote:
I'm not sure why you feel namechecking Madman's CEO adds importance to your post.

I'm not saying my post is important. I just thought I would give you some background. Customers are nothing more than a nuisance when they complain, I know that. However this isn't even a complaint. It's just a question.

Blind Lawyer wrote:
I'd rather you added some constructive criticism that could be answered. Your post above, and many posts I've seen, amount to little other than conjecture and negativity. You have your right to your opinion and there is a lot of validity in pointing out that we have made mistakes.

Let us forget about what I have posted in the past shall we? That's not why I'm here. I'm not here bagging Madman, I'm not even here criticising your errors in this post. Additionally the question I gave could be answered, yet no one has given it a go yet.

Blind Lawyer wrote:
I don't actually see anything to respond to hear other than a conjectural moral judgement. Please give me an example that you know for a fact we've been aware of a significant fault, such as an indisputably unwatchable DVD, before shipping and let it go out.

I never said you have shipped them out knowing that there are errors. That is in no one's best interests, let alone the company that did it. I'm talking about errors that are noticed post release date.

Blind Lawyer wrote:
I'm happy to talk about improving our processes and arranging suitable fixes for the DVDs that unfortunately went to market and were later found to have a fault.

That was what my whole post was about, did you did read it or did you just see my username & assume it was a Madman bagging post? I just simply want to know why you continued to sell those DVDs I mentioned & probably others for 2 years, knowing that there were errors with them? That is all. I'm not trying to upset anyone, I just want an answer to the question. That's all I'm saying in this thread, I've asked my question. Can someone please finally give me an answer?
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Yaoihost
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blind Lawyer wrote:
Akira112 wrote:
Do you mean post the problem here then you'll edit the second post to include the problem that the post brought up. Cause if you do heres one.
Fullmetal Alchemist vol.4 , major errors are their. Heres a few, the disk keeps on freezing just before the opening on episode 15 and 16, episode 13 continously stops then plays for a few seconds until the end of the opening. Its impossible to watch after episode 14.


Please post details of your player model and whether you tried it in another player in the relevant thread for this title. We're looking in to this one and it's not as straightforward as it seems because not everyone is having this problem.

I guess that's part of the message - the DVD market - not just titles, but players, is so saturated now, that compatibility is harder to ensure because of the huge range of DVD players, which vary in quality themselves. To help us lock it down unconfirmed problems need to be discussed in their own threads.

Here, I'd like to know what you guys consider the priority titles from what's already known to have an error. There are individual threads (or you can start one) for what we should be referring to as possible faults.



I have a few different makes/models of DVD players and pretty much I have found the cheapie DVD players $50 - $80 ones play just about everything. Its usually the more expensive ones that I have a problem with- maybe better/sensitive error correction.
Some of the cheapie DVD players have no macrovision capability!!!!!!!

Also I have posted on some of the threads about layers and disc mastering/authoring and errors and this is not intended to be against madman but an explaination of what can happen with DVDs.
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Kirben
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Faults reporting process update Reply with quote
Blind Lawyer wrote:

The final step is replication. As replication requires careful scheduling, in addition to the time we have to allocate to fix any faults in our production schedule, we have to allow time for the next available replication run.


Could you please explain why Madman have had the time to produce and replicate three anime sampler DVDs this year, while many problems were still waiting to be fixed or replicated?

Blind Lawyer wrote:

For high priority fixes, we will replicate individual fixed discs that we can supply via mail to affected customers. For more minor problems we will still apply fixes, but we may not be able to replicate fixed discs until either restocking the original, or producing new discs for the release of a Complete Collection.


Could you please clearly state Madman's opinion of what is a minor problem, as I don't think many people would agree with it.
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Akira112
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey Sly was it you who deleted my second post in this thread or was it Blind Lawyer. I just stated that Madman should either hire new error checkers or prepare to lose customers, i know many madboarders who have switched to R1 only. I ask you now Madman to start to keep the quality in all releases, Fullmetal Alchemist and Gundam Seed are very popular but their releases are of low quality on some volumes especialy Fullmetal Alchemist. Mibs glitch list is huge and the more recent titles in his list should be considered for fix. And dont release samplers to promote series when you have more important things to worry about, such as keeping customers happy.

The paragraph above is my summary on the quality of Madmans releases, please dont see it as useless naysaying but instead as a list of things Madman should do to improve quality.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would have to say in my book that Quality is more important than quanitity.

IF you are going to produce more then you might as well get some more error checkers. Cause one way or another something has to give , the quality or the customers.

As far as I know out of the 64 anime dvd's I own 3 are defective
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Dizrythmia
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Akira112 wrote:
Hey Sly was it you who deleted my second post in this thread or was it Blind Lawyer.


http://madboards.madman.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=17793

Probably wasn't, but who knows. I had one removed a few days ago too.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just a small update SGB was kind enough to beat me to it in looking up those time spots and so he scribbled them down in a previous post and I'll repeat them here for the sake of it.

SG-B wrote:
I just watched the episode and here are several instances where I really noticed the "flashes":

-- 27min 20sec (a pull-back shot of several Land Team vehicles)

-- 27min 54 sec & 27min 55 sec (Modok, Hutch and Marvin are looking at an off-screen Cinda climbing a mountain)

-- 27min 56sec (Cinda climbing the mountain)

--28min 11 sec & 28min 12 sec (a pan-up shot of the sky and the planet's moon)


I did see similar "flashes" throughout the rest of the episodes, but the ones I listed above stand out the most.

I checked the DVD on my Pioneer DVR-520H.

I reckon the problem is just down to aged masters.



I also watched the UK DVD that has episode 2, but the "flashes" I listed above didn't appear on that disc. I think different masters were used for the UK release but don't quote me on that.

That's all.
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banksie
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blind Lawyer wrote:

I don't actually see anything to respond to hear other than a conjectural moral judgement. Please give me an example that you know for a fact we've been aware of a significant fault, such as an indisputably unwatchable DVD, before shipping and let it go out. I don't think you can, because that's never happened. To suggest that a company of ANY sort (customer focused, fan focused, or not) would knowingly compromise it's own products is ludicrous. We spend a lot of resources on testing, quality control (and new measures are being considered here) and we're committed to spending more on fixing faults, so it's not a moral question whatsoever.


I think you will find the point is more that once a disc is known to have a serious fault that it becomes an interesting question as to why Madman continue to sell stock of such a faulty disc. Boogiepop Phantom vol. 1 serves as a good example in which the 5.1 English soundtrack was acknolwedged as being hideously broken yet stock of the defective discs were sold for the better part of a year after that fault was identified.

It would be fair to say that even the most jaded critic of Madman do recognise that you, as a company, do try very hard to put out high quality releases and I think it is disingenuous to try and turn it into an assertion that you don't.

This is by the by to what I actually wanted to post about however.

Quote:

I'm happy to talk about improving our processes and arranging suitable fixes for the DVDs that unfortunately went to market and were later found to have a fault.


I've got a very simple suggestion - acknowledge fault reports and that they are being looked into. Continue that process all the way through with either posting the evaluation that the fault won't be fixed (as was the case with Texhnolyze vol. 6), no fault was found or that a fault has been found and is being identified.

Keep the customer informed.

For example take the errors I've reported about Kino's Journey vol. 1, FMA vol. 3 & 4. It is getting to two weeks now without a response. I have three discs that simply don't work with a DVD player that has served me well for a number of years and my big concern is that this is indicative of a change in the authoring process used by Madman. Especially for four episode discs, which seems to be a common denominator, which means as a customer I have no great assurance that future Madman discs are going to work for me.

A little feedback from Madman would do a lot to keep customers like me happy.
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Dizrythmia
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
banksie wrote:
I think you will find the point is more that once a disc is known to have a serious fault that it becomes an interesting question as to why Madman continue to sell stock of such a faulty disc.

That was the point alright. I thought it was pretty straightforward, & no offense to him, but I don't think that Blind Lawyer read the post properly to begin with. Still no response though...... interesting......

banksie wrote:
It would be fair to say that even the most jaded critic of Madman do recognise that you, as a company, do try very hard to put out high quality releases and I think it is disingenuous to try and turn it into an assertion that you don't.

Correct again. I never said that they intentionally released DVDs with errors. Why would they do that when they only have to go to the expense of replacing them?
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Mad Anime Fan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
banksie wrote:

A little feedback from Madman would do a lot to keep customers like me happy.
Best point made EVER!
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bny
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dizrythmia wrote:
banksie wrote:
I think you will find the point is more that once a disc is known to have a serious fault that it becomes an interesting question as to why Madman continue to sell stock of such a faulty disc.

That was the point alright. I thought it was pretty straightforward, & no offense to him, but I don't think that Blind Lawyer read the post properly to begin with. Still no response though...... interesting......


The reasons they (or any other company) would continue to sell a partially faulty disc and not recall it are based on % of error within the product, and stuff to do with contract law. If it is high % (eg wrong content on the disc) then you get a recall, probably. If it is low % (eg small video, subtitle, audio glitch) then you don't get a recall as the product is still essentially what you paid for (not perfect but probably under law the contract has been met by the company releasing the item, keeping in mind that the nature of the item is such that a % is expected to be faulty one way or another).

Sometimes the degree of the error/product fault is debatable (eg portion of one audio track affected) and the reason some products with higher % error remain on the shelf is because a determination was made within the company that the product is still essentially what is advertised and can continue to be sold. Because the severity of the error is debatable, you will get people who say it is too high an error to sell the product, and others who say they don't care (or don't even notice it all and aren't aware). In these "in between" high and low % of error cases you'd probably find a company would stop selling the item if they receive a high number of reseller complaints/returns along with consumer complaints, as their hand would be forced.

Keep in mind the term "serious fault" is subjective. If the company normally receives x% retailer returns becasue of replication errors for example, and then receives a different y% if a disc has a known error, then the degree of that difference would contribute to making an assessment about how "serious" the error is. Probably irrespective of whether or not a company representative says the error is "serious" on these forums.
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Dizrythmia
Misa Amane


Joined: 14 Apr 2002
Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
All well & good, but I don't want to speculate. I would like to hear it direct from an official Madman source.
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Timesplitter 01
Yakumo Tsukamoto


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 2701
Location: Trying to get through my backlog of anime

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am trying to figure out whether madman compleys with section 74D (merchantable quality )of the Trade Practices Act.

If anything they are barely scrapping through.
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Yaoihost
Hajime Saitou


Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 137
Location: dot AU Yaoi Heaven

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Timesplitter 01 wrote:
I am trying to figure out whether madman compleys with section 74D (merchantable quality )of the Trade Practices Act.

If anything they are barely scrapping through.


well it is YOUR choice if YOU want to purchase or not.
EVERY company that uses AAV regency for replication will have problems especially dual layered DVDs.
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beardedgeek
Shana


Joined: 16 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Timesplitter 01 wrote:
I am trying to figure out whether madman compleys with section 74D (merchantable quality )of the Trade Practices Act.

If anything they are barely scrapping through.


how about you go try it with fair trading or other applicable body and come back and tell us , or just keep trolling it up here Razz
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Dizrythmia
Misa Amane


Joined: 14 Apr 2002
Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
beardedgeek wrote:
how about you go try it with fair trading or other applicable body and come back and tell us , or just keep trolling it up here Razz


That's a bit unfair, he was only asking a question (even if there was a slight sarcastic undertone Smile ). I'm still waiting for an answer to my question from Madman (still).

Based on what I've seen in other threads, Timesplitter is hardly the kind of person I would call a troll. However, I am assuming that all businesses need to comply with it, but having not researched it thoroughly I couldn't say.

Beardedgeek is right though. Fair trading should be able to tell you.
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Timesplitter 01
Yakumo Tsukamoto


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
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Location: Trying to get through my backlog of anime

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A Troll is a person that posts after each post in the thread or posts to harrass a person (not a company).

Every Business In Australia needs to comply with the Trade Practices Act (CTH)and can be taken to court if they dont comply.

Of course there is also the Sale Of Goods act in every state, but the Trade Practices Act covers a whole lot more.
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Blind Lawyer
Madman Staff


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry to be blunt, but I've responded to the question. Reread my initial replies. To summarise very simply - for major faults - that is, discs that are plainly unplayable - yes, there would be a recall. For less disruptive faults (ie discs are still watchable as-is), it is often very SUBJECTIVE and often does not affect all customers. A knee jerk reaction to regularly conflicting or poorly supported fault reports would hurt customers out there buying and enjoying titles that work just fine for them.

For example, if a given disc fault affects only Japanese audio, and a given customer buys it but only watches the English audio - is that disc ever faulty for them? It makes absolutely no sense to pull minor faults from the market when most customers will still enjoy the titles as they are. In addition we have this service here for you to provide feedback and allow us to take action - it's not always immediate - that's simply not realistic - but we are making a real effort to find, recognise, and fix problems.

Please keep that in mind - there is a lot of subjectivity here and we do provide a lot of space for subjective viewpoints on the related issues.

This thread is not for that. This thread is about getting feedback for titles with known faults that you good people want us to pay more or particular attention to.

Some posts here are hijacking the useful intent here and nothing positive is coming out of it. It's valid to express concern and make complaints, but if you ignore the opportunity to actually help us do something about it, you are doing your fellow fans a disservice.

Please stay on topic, or we will need to close the thread. Please reread the first posts in this thread - we've communicated to you about the process and we're asking for specific feedback because we all want a positive outcome.
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Kirben
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
First let me state I have been a long time supporter of Madman's products, buying various anime releases on DVD, since they first started releasing the Dragon Ball Z series on DVD. I often used to buy directly from Madman as I wanted to show my support of their products and encourage Madman to release more anime in Australia. Madman actually handled their first few faulty DVDs well, which were Neon Genesis Evangelion Volume 7 and Rurouni Kenshin Volume 2. But the overall quality of Madman's releases has not been as good over the last few years, with more frequent faults as Madman try to release more anime titles each month. And those faults not been handled as quickly or as well as they should be.

Blind Lawyer wrote:
Sorry to be blunt, but I've responded to the question. Reread my initial replies. To summarise very simply - for major faults - that is, discs that are plainly unplayable - yes, there would be a recall. For less disruptive faults (ie discs are still watchable as-is), it is often very SUBJECTIVE and often does not affect all customers. A knee jerk reaction to regularly conflicting or poorly supported fault reports would hurt customers out there buying and enjoying titles that work just fine for them.


So we finally have our answer, we are only guaranteed a replacement disc if a fault is so bad it prevents part(s) of the disc from been played.

Blind Lawyer wrote:
For example, if a given disc fault affects only Japanese audio, and a given customer buys it but only watches the English audio - is that disc ever faulty for them? It makes absolutely no sense to pull minor faults from the market when most customers will still enjoy the titles as they are. In addition we have this service here for you to provide feedback and allow us to take action - it's not always immediate - that's simply not realistic - but we are making a real effort to find, recognise, and fix problems.


This is nothing more than an excuse to continue selling a faulty product, a consumer has the right to get what they have paid for, even if they don't use all the features. People who bought a DVD to watch only the Japanese version or both versions, are entitled to expect a decent working product too. Another situation is a person buying a series to watch one specific version, but later deciding to watch the other version too, only to find the version faulty and still no fix available. People should not be expected to pay for and accept a faulty product, with only a chance of a fix, if they wait a long time...
I would agree that replacements aren't worth it for extremely minor issues but Madman should always be trying to improve their QA to prevent even minor issues from occurring in the future. But our definitions of a minor issue clearly don't match. Also mistakes which occurred on the original releases overseas should not be fixed after release, people should always let Madman know about these in advance, if they want these issues handled.

Blind Lawyer wrote:

Please keep that in mind - there is a lot of subjectivity here and we do provide a lot of space for subjective viewpoints on the related issues.

This thread is not for that. This thread is about getting feedback for titles with known faults that you good people want us to pay more or particular attention to.

Some posts here are hijacking the useful intent here and nothing positive is coming out of it. It's valid to express concern and make complaints, but if you ignore the opportunity to actually help us do something about it, you are doing your fellow fans a disservice.


What do you expect? there are just too many issues that Madman have promised to fix (on this message board) in the past, but were never fixed! It has been stated it takes time to produce a fixed disc and have the discs replicated, but too often people are left waiting months or years. It is just not right, that Madman are able to produce and replicate several anime samplers, while people are waiting for fixed discs of products they paid for.
The situation of disc 1 of Dragon Ball Collection 6 is just the most recent example, with a fix promised and over a year of waiting, only to find out the major issue was not fixed at all! I just want to be able to watch the original Japanese version of the rest of the Dragon Ball series, but the literal subtitles for episode 73 aren't on the disc! Funimation's English dub scripts aren't accurate, with pointless added dialog, characters changed, situations changed and jokes ruined. I seem to be only left with the option of importing Funimation's release of this collection at this point, after already buying Madman's release!
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Blind Lawyer
Madman Staff


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Hell's Kitchen

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kirben wrote:
First let me state I have been a long time supporter of Madman's products, buying various anime releases on DVD, since they first started releasing the Dragon Ball Z series on DVD. I often used to buy directly from Madman as I wanted to show my support of their products and encourage Madman to release more anime in Australia. Madman actually handled their first few faulty DVDs well, which were Neon Genesis Volume 7 and Rurouni Kenshin Volume 2. But the overall quality of Madman's releases has not been as good over the last few years, with more frequent faults as Madman try to release more anime titles each month. And those faults not been handled as quickly or as well as they should be.


Totally agree! I also did the same as a customer of Madman before joining the team - support local releases, good stuff!

As for your criticisms, they are very valid! That is the whole point of this thread - to recognise, explain, and invite constructive feedback to help us action specific existing problems, particularly long standing ones. Totally with you so far.

Kirben wrote:

Blind Lawyer wrote:
Sorry to be blunt, but I've responded to the question. Reread my initial replies. To summarise very simply - for major faults - that is, discs that are plainly unplayable - yes, there would be a recall.


So we finally have our answer, we are only guaranteed a replacement disc if a fault is so bad it prevents part(s) of the disc from been played.


Oops, I think you've misread my post. I'm referring to the question "why doesn't Madman recall all titles with faults?" (which is not what this thread is here for). I'm saying a recall is not guaranteed, and made the point that in most cases it would not actually be helpful to fans. The faults checking and disc replacement process is what we will utilise to get error fixes into the hands of affected customers.

Kirben wrote:

Blind Lawyer wrote:
For example, if a given disc fault affects only Japanese audio, and a given customer buys it but only watches the English audio - is that disc ever faulty for them? It makes absolutely no sense to pull minor faults from the market when most customers will still enjoy the titles as they are. In addition we have this service here for you to provide feedback and allow us to take action - it's not always immediate - that's simply not realistic - but we are making a real effort to find, recognise, and fix problems.


This is nothing more than an excuse to continue selling a faulty product, a consumer has the right to get what they have paid for, even if they don't use all the features.


I think you've missed the point. It's not about making excuses and we certainly do not want to sell faulty product. There's a difference between pulling something from market so nobody gets to buy it, and putting into place a policy that ensures we can address faults both large and small.

Absolutely, we need to minimise such problems. Absolutely. The unfortunate fact is that errors will occasionally occur, so there is a developing process in place to monitor and correct errors. Realistically, a high percentage of the errors are very minor and does not make a disc unwatchable or prevent viewer enjoyment. Even so, we will still fix as many errors as we can - including the "very minor" whatever you view of that may be. We're working through the errors list internally and I'm sure you guys will be pleased with the results.

I hope that sounds positive to you guys, because it sounds positive to me. The main issue for this thread is to let you know of this ongoing process, and to get very specific feedback - to add anything VERY major and VERY urgent of the currently known faults to that list I made in the 2nd post of the thread. I understand your frustration and questions about the long wait for many things to be fixed - but please recognise that you have been heard, and that this is happening. I just need to know from you anything major that we may have missed.

Kirben wrote:

The situation of disc 1 of Dragon Ball Collection 6 Funimation's English dub scripts


Understood. I've logged this error and it will be fixed on a future run of the disc. The dubtitle problem came to light after the original error - the major chaptering issue on disc 2 - was already fixed. This one was done before the new fault reporting process was put into place, and we're sorry the dubtitle was overlooked. We'll let you know when the fixed run is available, and don't forget the fixed disc 2 is available right now.
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Kirben
Nene Romanova


Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 2327
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blind Lawyer wrote:
Oops, I think you've misread my post. I'm referring to the question "why doesn't Madman recall all titles with faults?" (which is not what this thread is here for). I'm saying a recall is not guaranteed, and made the point that in most cases it would not actually be helpful to fans. The faults checking and disc replacement process is what we will utilise to get error fixes into the hands of affected customers.


Just the fact a recall should apply in more cases, for example:
-if scenes are hidden on disc and only accessible by going to exact chapter/track (ie Dragon Ball 5.7)
-audio is out of sync, for a large amount of time (ie Slayers Next)
-if items are completely missing from the disc (ie Dragon Ball Collection 6)

Blind Lawyer wrote:

I think you've missed the point. It's not about making excuses and we certainly do not want to sell faulty product. There's a difference between pulling something from market so nobody gets to buy it, and putting into place a policy that ensures we can address faults both large and small.

Absolutely, we need to minimise such problems. Absolutely. The unfortunate fact is that errors will occasionally occur, so there is a developing process in place to monitor and correct errors. Realistically, a high percentage of the errors are very minor and does not make a disc unwatchable or prevent viewer enjoyment. Even so, we will still fix as many errors as we can - including the "very minor" whatever you view of that may be. We're working through the errors list internally and I'm sure you guys will be pleased with the results.


My last response is based on the problem of Madman promising fixes for many issues in the past, many of which were never actually fixed. One of the oldest examples would be the audio glitch on Orphen Volume 3, for a complete list check out http://mib.personal.unimelb.edu.au/madglitch.html
So as I mentioned in last post, people were left with a faulty product, with only a chance of a fix, if they waited long enough.
Some of these older anime titles with faults, must have been replicated again in the meantime, leading to more faulty versions been sold too.

If Madman really want to finally take care of all the issues in older titles too, that web site would be a good reference of errors on anime titles that are still unfixed.

Blind Lawyer wrote:
Kirben wrote:

The situation of disc 1 of Dragon Ball Collection 6 Funimation's English dub scripts


Understood. I've logged this error and it will be fixed on a future run of the disc. The dubtitle problem came to light after the original error - the major chaptering issue on disc 2 - was already fixed. This one was done before the new fault reporting process was put into place, and we're sorry the dubtitle was overlooked. We'll let you know when the fixed run is available, and don't forget the fixed disc 2 is available right now.


I don't understand this response, as it isn't based on any facts. The dubtitle problem was the first issue reported on Dragon Ball Collection 6, the chapter issue was reported shortly after in the same thread. Both issues were reported long before work on the fixed disc had even started, please read the old thread at http://madboards.madman.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=13923 to refresh your memory. Slykura's last post made it clear Madman were still aware of the dubtitle issue, but thought the issue was too minor to be worth fixing in the past.
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emric
Doraemon


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 52
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ok well my enquiry is about Samurai Champloo V2. There's a thread all about it entitled "Samurai Champloo Vol. 2 [FIXED, New disc in replication]"

however, the last official response in that thread was in early June stating that (as the topic title suggests) that the fixed discs were being replicated and would be available 4-5 weeks from then.

So in the last 4 months or so i have posted a couple of times to ask if these fixed discs are available... and still no official response.

if you could please look into this issue and let me know what's going on... it would deliver me from a lot of frustration!
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Blind Lawyer
Madman Staff


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Hell's Kitchen

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kirben wrote:
Madman were still aware of the dubtitle issue, but thought the issue was too minor to be worth fixing in the past.


Fortunately we now have a new process where problems that are too minor to receive an individual fixed disc run (a costly process, and difficult to schedule), we can follow up so that they will be fixed on the next normal replication run, which we can agree is better than "never".

This is one of the small improvements that are coming along with the new process.

Quote:
ok well my enquiry is about Samurai Champloo V2


We still have high stock level of this one so I'm not sure when replication is due but I'll be checking in on all the existing fixes with production over the next week.
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mib
Ayeka Masaki Jurai


Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 6463

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello Madman and members,

I'd like to post a few minor points, since I have seen the Madman DVD glitch page I maintain mentioned a few times. Please bear with me.

The first is that I most often see the page mentioned in posts which are fairly hostile to Madman. I want to remind everyone that the purpose of the page is not to give anyone a stick with which to beat Madman. It is there to provide a catalogue of glitches, both trivial and serious, to inform consumers (i.e., us) and to make sure problems are not forgotten. I would be happy, even overjoyed, for Madman to officially publish such a list so I don't have to. With the recent attempts a QA process improvement at Madman, this could be something to consider.

If any of you (including anyone at Madman) have constructive suggestions about how the list could be altered to make it better or more accurate, I welcome them.

I do not maintain the list out of some hatred for or grudge against Madman.

Secondly, my policy for adding items to the list has been an inclusive one. Because one goal is to inform consumers the list is as comprehensive as I can make it. There are many items on the list that are trivial enough that I wouldn't fix them if I were Madman. Any argument using the size of the list as a fundamental point against Madman is therefore flawed.

Thirdly, the list is maintained almost entirely from posts in this forum, with the only exception being things people have emailed me directly. As a result it is not, and will never be, totally correct. I am relying on all of you to make it clear when something is wrong, and equally to make it clear when something has been fixed. I think the latter of those is something that tends to be unfortunately forgotten.

Best wishes,

- mib
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Phoenix85
Ryuk


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 4328
Location: Hay, hell & booligal, the nasty end of nowhere...

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did have a couple of questions, a couple of which have been answered by mib's afore-mentioned glitch list (many thanks mib).
With refernce to Rurouni Kenshin I recently bought the boxsets, now half the 'glitches' mentioned I don't really notice (like the Japanese audio being slightly out of sync, I'm too busy reading the subtitles) Can someone (Blind Lawyer/Sly/anyone else) confirm wether or not the following discs have had these problems fixed and are there replacements available?

mib's List wrote:
Disc : Rurouni Kenshin Vol. 6
Reported : 31-Jul-2004
Problem : There is a short dropout in the English audio channel at title 3, chapter 15, 0:53:55.
Resolution : Given that this lasted years without anyone noticing I doubt it will be fixed.

mib's List wrote:
Disc : Rurouni Kenshin Vol. 8
Reported : 2003 (unfixed)
Problem : At two points in the feature presentation the audio and video freezes for 1/4-1/3 of a second before continuing. These occur at: title 3, chapter 2, 0:09:47; title 3, chapter 13, 1:04:26.
Resolution : Despite earlier claims that these had been fixed the box set release still contains these errors. It appears that these will not be fixed.

Last one! wrote:
Disc : Rurouni Kenshin Vol. 22
Reported : 09-Dec-2003
Problem : Screenshots on the back of the cover are the same as those on volume 21 and are from episodes on that earlier DVD.
Resolution : Acknowledged by Madman. Unknown if it will be fixed in later printings.

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TheGreatNinjaFanBoy
Nene Romanova


Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 2344
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blind Lawyer wrote:
Fortunately we now have a new process where problems that are too minor to receive an individual fixed disc run (a costly process, and difficult to schedule), we can follow up so that they will be fixed on the next normal replication run, which we can agree is better than "never".


That's something I wanted to here.

How about these?

Ikki Tousen V1 & Gundam SEED V5 - Artifacts? [EXAMPLES]
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beardedgeek
Shana


Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 2433
Location: newcastle

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheGreatNinjaFanBoy wrote:
Blind Lawyer wrote:
Fortunately we now have a new process where problems that are too minor to receive an individual fixed disc run (a costly process, and difficult to schedule), we can follow up so that they will be fixed on the next normal replication run, which we can agree is better than "never".


That's something I wanted to here.

How about these?

Ikki Tousen V1 & Gundam SEED V5 - Artifacts? [EXAMPLES]


didn't sly already make a comment about them?? or are you asking around hoping someone else will promise you a re run
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Creedy
Mylene Jenius


Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did you notice Sly's last post?
They won't fix it because their workload is to much.

Madman ...... lower your workload!!!!!!!!
Lower the amount of DVD's released a month and fix these problems please.
We shouldn't have to wait for two years until you have "ran out of stock" for a new print/press.

Anyway, any news on the Transformers 3.3 error? Will it be fixed and released in time for christmas?
As I'm wanting to buy the rest of the boxsets for the $40 price tag if it's fixed.
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Akira112
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why dont Madman stop releasing to much on one month and instead put some bi monthly shows in equal amounts each month, even months always seem to have alot of bi monthly shows . Future bi monthly should be equally spread on even and odd and this would reduce pay loads.
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TheGreatNinjaFanBoy
Nene Romanova


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
beardedgeek wrote:
TheGreatNinjaFanBoy wrote:
Blind Lawyer wrote:
Fortunately we now have a new process where problems that are too minor to receive an individual fixed disc run (a costly process, and difficult to schedule), we can follow up so that they will be fixed on the next normal replication run, which we can agree is better than "never".


That's something I wanted to here.

How about these?

Ikki Tousen V1 & Gundam SEED V5 - Artifacts? [EXAMPLES]


didn't sly already make a comment about them?? or are you asking around hoping someone else will promise you a re run


Yeah, pretty much. I thought asking wouldn't hurt. Rolling Eyes

Considering these are "minor" errors and I've seen lesser errors fixed. Madman obviously has a different definition of "minor" to myself. Still, I see no reason why Ikki Tousen v1 and Gundam Seed v5 should go unfixed.

Though I wouldnít be surprised if Madman never fixed these.
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beardedgeek
Shana


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheGreatNinjaFanBoy wrote:


Considering these are "minor" errors and I've seen lesser errors fixed. Madman obviously has a different definition of "minor" to myself. Still, I see no reason why Ikki Tousen v1 and Gundam Seed v5 should go unfixed.

Though I wouldn’t be surprised if Madman never fixed these.


i'm presuming minor is not only related to the actual problem but the amount of time needed to fix a problem.
eg to add in a missing subtitle track that was missed out accidently(they made it just didn't include it) would only require a little bit of reauthoring , while re-encoding and such is a fairly major job.

so while a smaller error may be fixed they both are still considered minor but one can be done in the day to day tasks while the other is a major undertaking . i think.,
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Blind Lawyer
Madman Staff


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi all,

An update from production - the fixes for Slayers NEXT and Transformers are DONE and we will be replicating soon. I don't have dates for the discs themselves but will update when available.

We're progressing on other faults reports also and will be able to announce further fixes soon. Watch this space.
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Mad Anime Fan
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Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
May I ask, wich volume of Transformers is the fix for?
Is it for 3.3 the Webworld issue or in relation to the sound issues mentioned for episodes "Dark Awakening" and "Rebirth"?
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Blind Lawyer
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Hell's Kitchen

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is for Webworld - Transformers Collection 4, disc 3.3

New news - we are ordering new discs right now and they should arrive in 2ish weeks.

So Transformers is fixed and available from approx 1st week of December

Customers can start sending in their faulty 3.3 discs from NOW to:

Web Sales
Madman Entertainment
1-35 Wellington St
Collingwood VIC 3055
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Mad Anime Fan
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Joined: 18 Dec 2004
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Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hm I may wait for a little bit, I suppose those two episodes of Dark Awakening and Rebirth I mentioned are also issues that will be fixed or not?
Because if so I'll hold back for a while and do them all in one go, if not I suppose I'll send mine in.
It's still supprising the masters you got had audio like that for those episodes of Transformers and I have VHS copies wich have perfect sound.
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Blind Lawyer
Madman Staff


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Hell's Kitchen

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Folks, its time to send those discs in!

Slayers Next Disc 1 is in and ready to go!

Transformers Coll 4 Disc 1 (Season 3.3) is in and ready to go!

Dragon Ball Coll 6 disc 2 is in and ready to go!

As mentioned in post #2 in this thread, please send your disc only with name and address to:

Web Sales
Madman Entertainment
1-35 Wellington St
Collingwood VIC 3066
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Mad Anime Fan
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Posts: 6693
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vehicle Voltron collection 3, major problem with the final episode on disc 3.
Read this topic for more information.
http://madboards.madman.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=20311
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