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Holy **** Madman licensed Cardcaptor Sakura.



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Holy **** Madman licensed Cardcaptor Sakura.
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Protocol7
Washu Hakubi


Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2,

Why is it that if there is ever some whining happening on these forums, you are most always right at the middle of it? Razz

Bluray vs DVD should be treated as Sub vs Dub and pounced on before it even gets off the ground. lol
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Claus
Doraemon


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Protocol7 wrote:
OniV2,

Why is it that if there is ever some whining happening on these forums, you are most always right at the middle of it? Razz

Bluray vs DVD should be treated as Sub vs Dub and pounced on before it even gets off the ground. lol


Hm there is nothing wrong with wanting something in the modern current format though. Hopefully over the next few years madman will be at least approaching parity with blu and DVD releases of things.
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CG
Yukino Miyazawa


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 8519
Location: Brisvegas, QLD

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ShaolinHandLock wrote:
I may not post on these boards much any more, but the comments about DVD's are grinding my gears.

I'm one of those people who watch and collect DVD's on a HD TV. Why? Because I just don't see the point in upgrading just yet. Heck, I still watch VHS tapes occasionally. But my basic point is this: I am perfectly happy with the picture quality of DVD's, and I object to being called 'dense', 'retarted' and whatever other slurs in this thread directed at people like me who just don't care about whatever extra quality Blu-Rays might bring.

The difference between VHS and DVD was justifiable enough for me to upgrade then. The difference between DVD and Blu-Ray is not justifiable enough for me to upgrade now. I'm perfectly happy with my DVD's, and as I've already said, I object to people like me being made out as some sort of idiot for watching them on a HDTV.


I think you've misinterpreted what we were getting at. The point I was making is that people ensure they have the best TVs around but will then watch SD TV and DVDs that are connected via the RGB cables. It defeats the purpose of paying the extra for an expensive TV set when you're not going to see any of the benefit.

I also have people buying a $120 DVD player [for some reason] even though we sell Bluray players for $20 more. They have an HD television but refuse to make the upgrade based around incorrect assumptions.

As it is, I'm perfectly happy watching DVDs on my television but I also realise that Bluray is the better format. I encounter people who don't realise or understand this and will pay upwards of $1000 more on a TV where they won't see the benefit.

The process of upgrading is relatively inexpensive - especially, as I mentioned above, you're buying another DVD player - and there is a definite increase in quality. As you said, you don't quite think there is a huge difference but Blurays are essentially the same price - or close to - of most DVDs these days.

Clearly, I'm not telling you to upgrade but from my experience my customers are just willfully ignoring Bluray because they think it's complicated or just outright don't understand what it is but are quite happy to purchase high-end sets and high-end DVD players.
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OniV2
Nene Romanova


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Timesplitter 01 wrote:
However this still doesnt change the fact that bluray production is still expensive compared to dvds.

The fact is that the Australian anime market is like mercury (the planet) to where as American and Japan togher would be like Jupiter.

If you dont have large enough market for production means that each disc is going to cost more to produce which will result in a higher cost to the comsumer.


Of course Blu-Ray product is expensive compared to DVDs.

By your line of logic, why should Madman release anything on Blu-Ray in the future? I remember a time when Madman DVD collections could come out to be $150 for a 50 episode collection, and near on $80 for 26 episodes.

Madman is dealing with a niche market. It's delivering a speciality product to a very small, specific group of people. They can't expect to sell everything for a low price. If something has to come out to $100-150 for a 72 episode collection on Blu-Ray, what's wrong with that? Surely the consumers that care enough to purchase it on Blu-Ray will do so, right? I remember a time, not too long ago, when Gundam SEED was $150 on DVD.

Quote:
There is some price sensitivity in the anime market, besides those with huge wallets, meaning a huge increase in cost to buy anime would result in consumers either going to competitors or finding cheaper substitutes to entertain themselves.


Considering there is a lack of competition for CCS, one would assume they have a global audience for this lone release?

Quote:
Is anyone actually thinking Slykuras points from a business point of view or is everyone just ignoring the fact that if they did produce every show on bluray that they would be out of business within 12 months?


AFAIK, Madman has only produces the Ghibli titles that they sell on Blu-Ray. All other titles are merely repackaged FUNimation releases.

Besides, no one's asking for every show. They're asking for just this one.

StorminNorman wrote:
Licensing costs.


As Madman is only using one master, surely there should be no addition licensing costs? It's not like they have to further obtain an additional HD master to produce CCS Blu-Ray discs.

ShaolinHandLock wrote:
The difference between VHS and DVD was justifiable enough for me to upgrade then. The difference between DVD and Blu-Ray is not justifiable enough for me to upgrade now. I'm perfectly happy with my DVD's, and as I've already said, I object to people like me being made out as some sort of idiot for watching them on a HDTV.


Are you kidding? The difference is technically huge, and it shows. Heck, for me it's hard to watch anime in standard definition now - especially on an HDTV.

You're not an idiot for liking DVDs and watching them on an HDTV, but really, as has been stated earlier there's really no reason to not upgrade. The difference is noticeable on any 32"+ HDTV and the price isn't exactly highway robbery anymore.

Protocol7 wrote:
Why is it that if there is ever some whining happening on these forums, you are most always right at the middle of it?


I lyke teh dramuh!!!111!!1!!111!!11!

Seriously though, this isn't 'whining'. I'm merely challenging the decision to not produce CCS on Blu-Ray, and stating why I'm not going to buy it on DVD as a result. Right now the thread is on a tangent.

Quote:
Bluray vs DVD should be treated as Sub vs Dub and pounced on before it even gets off the ground. lol


Why? Sub vs Dub is subjective, but Blu-Ray vs DVD is pretty much an objective matter. One is legitimately better than the other.
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Timesplitter 01
Yakumo Tsukamoto


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To make this brief........

OniV2 if we were talking about 5-6 years ago when people had a lot of cash to splash around then I would probably agree with you. However with the world economy as it is the anime market as a whole outside japan is going through a period of contraction with companies mainly investing in shows that they know that they can sell.

Not all anime fans are willing to spend a lot of money on shows and then again you get people like us that basically spend all of our disposable income on it, well not all of it but a good chunk of it. Trying to say that all anime fans would be willing to pay $220 for a 12 episode is a bit over the top.

Also if you havent been paying attention Funimation and other companies have actually started to have a decline in their bluray offerings. While it isnt hugely obvious yet it is the truth.

Oh well me and you will have to say that we agree to disagree on a vast majority of issues.
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ShaolinHandLock
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
Are you kidding? The difference is technically huge, and it shows. Heck, for me it's hard to watch anime in standard definition now - especially on an HDTV.

You're not an idiot for liking DVDs and watching them on an HDTV, but really, as has been stated earlier there's really no reason to not upgrade. The difference is noticeable on any 32"+ HDTV and the price isn't exactly highway robbery anymore.


No, I'm not kidding. DVD quality is perfectly fine to me.

And I will never understand the 'hard to watch in standard definition' stuff. I watch VHS tapes with no problems.

And finally, there is a reason not to upgrade. Actually a few: Firstly, most stuff I want I already have on DVD, and I don't plan on re-buying it. Secondly, I have stuff on VHS that has never even been released on DVD, so a Blu-Ray release is pretty much never going to happen. Thirdly, I have a collection of Kung Fu movies on DVD, most of which are now out of print, and most of which have terrible video and audio quality. And despite the terrible video quality on some of them, I still watch and enjoy them. Which brings me to lastly, I am perfectly happy with DVD's, as I've said before.

I never said Blu-Rays weren't of higher quality. It's just that I don't need the extra video quality. And that's what it really comes down to: I don't need it. It isn't a necessity to me enjoying whatever I watch.
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speedfreek19
Itsuki Koizumi


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ShaolinHandLock wrote:

No, I'm not kidding. DVD quality is perfectly fine to me.


Same here too, though I've already gone the blu-ray route and I have 30-ish BDs currently but i've only watched a few of them that i've bought and a handful more on rentals.

My TV scales SD sources pretty well so it's not a big issue for me either, granted my DvD player is connected via component, as well as the PS2. VCR isn't but that's more due to lack of inputs and i use that even less.

ShaolinHandLock wrote:
And I will never understand the 'hard to watch in standard definition' stuff.


Some folk are more anal than others, so once they go up a step, it's hard to go back, that's pretty much my understanding of it.

Quote:

I watch VHS tapes with no problems


I still buy VHS tapes from Vinnies/Salvos Razz

Probably should start watching some, as to weed out any heavily worn ones.
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Zane Truesdale
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
As Madman is only using one master, surely there should be no addition licensing costs? It's not like they have to further obtain an additional HD master to produce CCS Blu-Ray discs.

Isn't it possible that the licensing costs only involve a DVD release with it possibly costing more if Madman wanted to do a BD release or needing another licensing agreement for the BD?


But that is just an assumption due to having no knowledge on how these licensing agreements work.
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OniV2
Nene Romanova


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Timesplitter 01 wrote:
To make this brief........

OniV2 if we were talking about 5-6 years ago when people had a lot of cash to splash around then I would probably agree with you. However with the world economy as it is the anime market as a whole outside japan is going through a period of contraction with companies mainly investing in shows that they know that they can sell.


*Looks at the Blu-Ray titles Madman currently offers*

Are you sure about that?

Quote:
Not all anime fans are willing to spend a lot of money on shows and then again you get people like us that basically spend all of our disposable income on it, well not all of it but a good chunk of it. Trying to say that all anime fans would be willing to pay $220 for a 12 episode is a bit over the top.


Of course it would be a bit over the top to ask that, but no one's asking that. I doubt that the cost of a 12 episode anime on Blu-Ray would cost $220- Madman currently sells some >11 episode anime right now for $60. Card Captor Sakura is 72 episodes and a completely different story. I doubt it's going to be extra cheap on DVD.

Quote:
Also if you havent been paying attention Funimation and other companies have actually started to have a decline in their bluray offerings. While it isnt hugely obvious yet it is the truth.


They've started to decline in their Blu-Ray only offerings. There's still plenty of DVD + Blu-Ray releases out there being released, they have a few coming up right now even.

Quote:
Oh well me and you will have to say that we agree to disagree on a vast majority of issues.


Guess so.

ShoalinHandLock wrote:
And I will never understand the 'hard to watch in standard definition' stuff. I watch VHS tapes with no problems.


And? I can watch VHS tapes with no problem either. Anime is still incredibly hard to stomach in standard definition if I know I can be watching an HD variant with a proper HD master or upscale (i.e. not FLCL). Plus, there's the issue of lower quality audio...

Quote:
And finally, there is a reason not to upgrade. Actually a few: Firstly, most stuff I want I already have on DVD, and I don't plan on re-buying it. Secondly, I have stuff on VHS that has never even been released on DVD, so a Blu-Ray release is pretty much never going to happen. Thirdly, I have a collection of Kung Fu movies on DVD, most of which are now out of print, and most of which have terrible video and audio quality. And despite the terrible video quality on some of them, I still watch and enjoy them. Which brings me to lastly, I am perfectly happy with DVD's, as I've said before.


There is a reason to upgrade: Blu-Ray and VHS dual-players are quite common. They also play DVDs, quite obviously.

If you seriously think you need to throw out your DVD collection... FYI, most Blu-Ray players upscale DVDs much better than upscaling DVD players do. I know from experience, since I went from a DVD player with composite cables, to a top of the line upscaling DVD player, to a multi-region Blu-Ray player in a relatively short period of time.

speedfreek19 wrote:
My TV scales SD sources pretty well so it's not a big issue for me either, granted my DvD player is connected via component, as well as the PS2. VCR isn't but that's more due to lack of inputs and i use that even less.


Your TV merely displays an image. It does no scaling.

[EDIT]: The TV can tweak the footage, as in how it displays colours, brightness, contrast, and the like. It cannot do any scaling of footage though, the image either simply being made larger to fit the screen or being properly scaled it pretty much all up to the media player you're using to play the footage you're watching.

Zane Truesdale wrote:
Isn't it possible that the licensing costs only involve a DVD release with it possibly costing more if Madman wanted to do a BD release or needing another licensing agreement for the BD?


Could be, it all depends on the terms of the licensing. If it all comes down to merely licensing the master and Madman can author Blu-Ray discs at will, there's seemingly no reason to not do a limited release. Then you don't have to worry about a a large potential loss because you're trying to cater to everyone.

However, if the license only includes a DVD release...
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Dark Master corvette3
Doraemon


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
AN Xbox 360 with an HDMI cable upscales 16:9 DVDs really well They look great! but not 4:3 ones Sad
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Claus
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That doesn't make sense, it has to be the sources or the disks the selves that cause that.
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OniV2
Nene Romanova


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Claus wrote:
That doesn't make sense, it has to be the sources or the disks the selves that cause that.


Unless he/she is talking about stretching, in which the 360 doesn't keep the correct aspect ratio.

Some players do indeed display things differently. The PS2, for example, isn't good at smoothing out footage. So black lines in anime can look fairly jagged whilst being played through a PS2. Of course, usually it's mostly the disc or original source's problem - like DVDs with 16:9 footage which have been authored in 4:3 and permanently have the black letterboxing lines on the top and bottom. I believe 4:3 HD masters, when authored on Blu-Ray, permanently have black letterboxing on the left and right. You have to rip directly from the Blu-Ray disc to see this though, pre-ripped and muxed 4:3 HD shows will have those black bar removed by whatever person muxed the footage (well, they would do so usually).
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Claus
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well correct aspect should always be used really for best results. Just change the aspect on the tv too.
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Dark Master corvette3
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmmm, well i could be wrong, but it might just be the HDMI doing it my as my Xbox did not do it before i got one, unless it is just stretching the image into 1080p, if so, it is doing that really well.
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Gouki
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
By your line of logic, why should Madman release anything on Blu-Ray in the future? I remember a time when Madman DVD collections could come out to be $150 for a 50 episode collection, and near on $80 for 26 episodes. .


And I remember when it was $150 for a 26 episode series. So. That doesn't give you the right to aggressive go-getter endlessly about "I want to spend all my money on expensive HD anime just so I can feel less empty inside." It also doesn't make you better than anyone. If anything this thread has show it has made you worse.

If you can't cope with knowing there is a HD version out there, that you don't have you might have a severe problem.

I really don't care, I'd be far happier with a reasonably priced version that sells (to encourage this in the future) and looks fine. It doesn't need top be BR to look fine.
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krysinello
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The differences between Blu Ray and DVD quality is blatantly obvious on any decent setup. The better the setup, the more this will standout.

I don't mind watching DVDs on such a setup however. if there is a DVD only release, I won't not buy it for the fact that it isn't Blu Ray. Although if there is a blu ray release, even if it is more expensive, then that will be the obvious choice. The increase in video and audio quality it provides makes paying extra for it worth it, to a certain extent anyways.

Really depends on the series, but for the average series, if I could get the DVDs for say $25 but have to pay $80 for the Blu Rays, I'd go for DVDs. The better the series, the more extra I'd be willing to spend on for quality.

CCS, I wouldn't be willing to pay much extra on. While it is a good series, I have never found it to be as brilliant as most have said. As well as that, it'll just be an upscale on Blu Ray anyways, so the difference won't be as great. While upscaled Blu Ray does upscale better then when playing a DVD, the difference simply isn't worth how much extra a blu ray collection may cost. Basically I am completely satisfied with DVDs for this release.


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OniV2
Nene Romanova


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gouki wrote:
And I remember when it was $150 for a 26 episode series. So. That doesn't give you the right to aggressive go-getter endlessly about "I want to spend all my money on expensive HD anime just so I can feel less empty inside." It also doesn't make you better than anyone. If anything this thread has show it has made you worse.


What?

[EDIT] I've read this paragraph a few times, and can now formulate a response:

You took wanting a Blu-Ray release and the resulting discussion on why Blu-Ray is indeed superior to DVD as me having some kind of a superiority complex and that Blu-Ray makes me feel like some kind of a big man because otherwise I'll be empty inside?

What?

Quote:
If you can't cope with knowing there is a HD version out there, that you don't have you might have a severe problem.


What?

[EDIT]

Who said I couldn't cope? There's a difference between finding it hard to watch due to sh*t image quality and being physically not able to.

Quote:
I really don't care, I'd be far happier with a reasonably priced version that sells (to encourage this in the future) and looks fine. It doesn't need top be BR to look fine.


Again, what?

krysinello wrote:
I don't mind watching DVDs on such a setup however. if there is a DVD only release, I won't not buy it for the fact that it isn't Blu Ray. Although if there is a blu ray release, even if it is more expensive, then that will be the obvious choice. The increase in video and audio quality it provides makes paying extra for it worth it, to a certain extent anyways.


I don't mind watching DVDs on such a setup either, however I will likely spend the extra money on a Blu-Ray release if there is one. I've spent over AU$300 on Blu-Ray collections, and I know others on this forum have too.

Doesn't change that this release isn't really much of a bump up from what's already been out there, so I'm not going to buy it unless it's on Blu-Ray. If people like Gouki somehow think this makes me some kind of a problem person that's empty inside (that's what I took from his post, anyway, it wasn't worded that well)... Well, gotta wonder who is the one that's spending my money and willing to spend top dollar Wink .

Quote:
As well as that, it'll just be an upscale on Blu Ray anyways, so the difference won't be as great.


That'd be true if it were an upscale, which it's not.
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SVanD
Hajime Saitou


Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two choices...

1). you buy it.
or...
2). you don't buy it.

One choice lets you watch the show... The other doesn't.

Simple really.




I'm buying it.
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OniV2
Nene Romanova


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SVanD wrote:
Two choices...

1). you buy it.
or...
2). you don't buy it.

One choice lets you watch the show... The other doesn't.

Simple really.




I'm buying it.


Sorry, I like the whole 'voicing an opinion directly to the company' this whole forum thing seems to provide. You don't often get a chance to do that and usually either have to roll over and accept things, or go to a different company.
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speedfreek19
Itsuki Koizumi


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
Doesn't change that this release isn't really much of a bump up from what's already been out there,


A bump up is still better than none at all or going backwards.

The best part of this release though, is that a lot more people are going to be able to buy it at a reasonable price, instead of the hundreds of dollars it goes for 2nd hand on existing R1 releases.

I'll be buying it even if I already have the Pioneer release, it'll be fun to compare the quality between the two.
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OniV2
Nene Romanova


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
speedfreek19 wrote:

A bump up is still better than none at all or going backwards.


That's true, but it's probably a bump up I'd have liked a few years ago, rather than now.

Quote:
The best part of this release though, is that a lot more people are going to be able to buy it at a reasonable price, instead of the hundreds of dollars it goes for 2nd hand on existing R1 releases.

I'll be buying it even if I already have the Pioneer release, it'll be fun to compare the quality between the two.


In all honesty, it depends on how Madman goes about releasing it. We could still end up paying AU$150 or so for the entirety of the series, going by the current pricing scheme, which still might be a tad 'expensive' for those wishing to dilly dally in some nostalgia. Digimon was released in 25-27 episode blocks for %49.95 each.
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speedfreek19
Itsuki Koizumi


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well either way, it's still going to be on the higher side due to the fact that it is 70 episodes and even if it is at $150 for the whole series in the end, depending on set prices, it's still cheaper than the $300+ you pay elsewhere before any kind of postage.

Has it been mentioned how many episodes are in the first collection?
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OniV2
Nene Romanova


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
speedfreek19 wrote:
Well either way, it's still going to be on the higher side due to the fact that it is 70 episodes and even if it is at $150 for the whole series in the end, depending on set prices, it's still cheaper than the $300+ you pay elsewhere before any kind of postage.


Whilst I've acknowledged this as true previously, I believe releases like this to be more-so about the 'you're actually buying a noticeably better version of what you had before' than the 'you're going to buy it just to watch the contents' part.

It's kinda like how certain films, like Akira, have been released on VHS, DVD and Blu-Ray now.

Quote:
Has it been mentioned how many episodes are in the first collection?


I don't believe so, but if it's any less than 26 it'll probably be a long time before all 72 episodes are released.
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The Tragic Man
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kirben's blurb for the image in the future cover thread says 35 episodes, so I'd assume two 35-episode sets.

http://madboards.madman.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=881064#881064
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speedfreek19
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
Whilst I've acknowledged this as true previously, I believe releases like this to be more-so about the 'you're actually buying a noticeably better version of what you had before' than the 'you're going to buy it just to watch the contents' part.


To be fair though, at least for the market here, all we got was the edited Cardcaptors version and I don't even think all of it was released on DVD here anyway.
So technically speaking, one is getting the better product. (Not including those that imported the Pioneer release)

It would be interesting to see how much cleaner/crisper a HD master is on a DVD release over the SD master DVD release regardless.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have never seen Card Captors all the way through saw most episodes on Cheese TV when it aired but missed episodes due to mum banning me from cartoons before school a number of times and only have 1 of the madman dubbed release on DVD because most of it was already out of print before I started collecting anime. So this will be my first full collection of Card Captors when madman finally release it and my first time seeing it all the way through as well.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Tragic Man wrote:
Kirben's blurb for the image in the future cover thread says 35 episodes, so I'd assume two 35-episode sets.

http://madboards.madman.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=881064#881064


It'll still probably end up being an expensive release per set, I'd say a ball park guess would be $70-80 each.

speedfreek19 wrote:
To be fair though, at least for the market here, all we got was the edited Cardcaptors version and I don't even think all of it was released on DVD here anyway.
So technically speaking, one is getting the better product. (Not including those that imported the Pioneer release)


That's because it wasn't all that popular here IIRC. I'll be surprised if the sales now are all that great, even if they did do a Blu-Ray release. But, I've been saying this for a few pages now, so I'm just repeating myself.

Quote:

It would be interesting to see how much cleaner/crisper a HD master is on a DVD release over the SD master DVD release regardless.


Check out any recent release that's been both released on DVD and Blu-Ray and had a previous release, like FLCL or GiTS.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
It'll still probably end up being an expensive release per set, I'd say a ball park guess would be $70-80 each.


$60 at ezyDVD.com.au. However they stll have it listed as a July release. I guess it's unknown whether the superior masters will push the price up.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Tragic Man wrote:
$60 at ezyDVD.com.au. However they stll have it listed as a July release. I guess it's unknown whether the superior masters will push the price up.


I'll continue to be everyone's favourite Negative Nancy and say it will.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:

Oh, ok. I wasn't aware there were folk that were ok with poor quality interlaced crap. In 2012 of all years, too.


Yep, that'd be me *points up*. It's really about what matters to you. I'm a story nut, I'm real passionate about stories and it's the actual story that's important to me not how it's delivered. So I'll devour them however they're released, books, DVDs, interactive fiction, visual novels, VHS whatever. Stunning visuals don't significantly enhance my enjoyment of a show so visual quality is quite far down on my list of priorities; basically if I can see a show then that's fine with me. It's why I haven't upgraded to a HD-TV yet, my SD-TV works fine (apart from a few console games released with tiny text that I have to use my computer monitor for) and I see no reason to upgrade until it breaks. And unlike modern HD-TVs SD-TVs are like tanks, you buy one and it'll last for **** ages, Ricky Ponting broke the HD-TV in his dressing room by flinging his batting glove at it, fragile piece of POS.

What do I care about? Good writing and crisp dialogue, in a movie/tv-series decent acting as well. So I'm fine with a DVD release and I really can't be bothered with blu-ray, and I would never EVER consider boycotting a good series because it wasn't released in the most advanced format possible. But other folk are different.

It's all about what matters to you.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
As Madman is only using one master, surely there should be no addition licensing costs? It's not like they have to further obtain an additional HD master to produce CCS Blu-Ray discs.


The DVD rights and the Blu-Ray rights are likely considered separate things, and doing a BRD version would have added onto what I'm suspecting was already a quite high license for the series.

While you and I live in a land of logic and reason, copyright holders rarely do, and they have a nasty habit of going out of their way to eke as much money out of their intellectual properties as they can.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
StorminNorman wrote:
While you and I live in a land of logic and reason, copyright holders rarely do, and they have a nasty habit of going out of their way to eke as much money out of their intellectual properties as they can.


Why, it's almost as if they needed the money to live on!
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
pricing is set. $59.95 per set. 35 episodes per set. 5 discs per set.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
StorminNorman wrote:
The DVD rights and the Blu-Ray rights are likely considered separate things, and doing a BRD version would have added onto what I'm suspecting was already a quite high license for the series.


Well, we haven't got an answer yet, so we can only really speculate.

However, Madman (Sly) said they might consider a BRD release somewhere down the track. Why not get it now, let the DVDs level out the cost and then do BRD? Then you're not relying on the BRD release to cover the costs of the BRD license... I dunno, everyone's always said I had a weird way of money handling.

Quote:
While you and I live in a land of logic and reason, copyright holders rarely do, and they have a nasty habit of going out of their way to eke as much money out of their intellectual properties as they can.


Which isn't cool considering any licensing profit is merely gravy to them.

drae wrote:
I'm a story nut, I'm real passionate about stories and it's the actual story that's important to me not how it's delivered.


Some fun facts about me: I don't watch movies in 3D at the cinemas any more because the darkened lenses ruin the movie's colours and make darker scenes even darker. I'm also not as much of a sucker when it comes to the stories portrayed in anime anymore - in a handful of genres (romance, shounen, shoujo, mecha, etc) the stories are the same stuff over and over again, so I stopped caring about them. I'm more picky about my anime than I used to be due to this. I think I mentioned this in the 'how have your tastes changed' thread.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
Why not get it now, let the DVDs level out the cost and then do BRD? Then you're not relying on the BRD release to cover the costs of the BRD license... I dunno, everyone's always said I had a weird way of money handling.


Because that actually makes things worse money-wise. If you release both at the same time, each format will sell less than they otherwise would if they were the only format released in, you have the licensing and production costs of both, and you have gained relatively few people who would buy the Blu-Ray but would not buy the DVD if that was the only release format used. Costs go up a lot, but income doesn't, so profitability either shrinks or disappears.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
I remember a time when Madman DVD collections could come out to be $150 for a 50 episode collection, and near on $80 for 26 episodes.

Hell, I remember 26 episode boxsets being $120 and 13 episode boxsets being $88.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You've forgotten the individual vol days where everything was pretty much vol 1 + box (sometimes t-shirt included) or just vol 1. Some of the boxsets costed over $300 to get hold of that way.

I miss those days.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
HimuraBattousai wrote:
Because that actually makes things worse money-wise. If you release both at the same time, each format will sell less than they otherwise would if they were the only format released in, you have the licensing and production costs of both, and you have gained relatively few people who would buy the Blu-Ray but would not buy the DVD if that was the only release format used. Costs go up a lot, but income doesn't, so profitability either shrinks or disappears.


You obviously misunderstood that paragraph. If I have to dumb it down this much for you, here it is:

License both Blu-Ray and DVD -> Release DVD -> Wait for costs to be covered -> Release Blu-Ray.

No one said anything about both being produced at the same time. All it does is guarantee you have the Blu-Ray license for the set price it was at the time. You never know, the copyright holder may see that it sold well and bump up the price of a Blu-Ray license. Going by your logic, they'll never profit if they ever choose to release both formats - ever.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
FireAza wrote:
Hell, I remember 26 episode boxsets being $120 and 13 episode boxsets being $88.


Then you had to wait forever for the complete collection while the indivual volumes were coming out. I could only ever afford a few of the bigger sets a year and a couple cheaper ones. Of course, I was lazy and never got a job at high school but still. Razz

Also, I only ever did the individual volumes once. .hack//Legend of the Twilight Bracelet which was 3 DVDs at $30 each and the other was Scrapped Princess at $40 for the first with the box and then $30 for the rest (another 5?). Pretty expensive haha.

These days, if a show is above $25 I usually have to weigh up my options. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CG wrote:
Then you had to wait forever for the complete collection while the indivual volumes were coming out. I could only ever afford a few of the bigger sets a year and a couple cheaper ones. Of course, I was lazy and never got a job at high school but still. Razz

Also, I only ever did the individual volumes once. .hack//Legend of the Twilight Bracelet which was 3 DVDs at $30 each and the other was Scrapped Princess at $40 for the first with the box and then $30 for the rest (another 5?). Pretty expensive haha.

These days, if a show is above $25 I usually have to weigh up my options. Laughing


I remember when I went the volume route with the Eureka Seven collection... By god, was that not a good idea. $250 later, and I wasn't all that sure it was worth it. After that, I never really went for the volume route on DVDs. It just never happened - like, never ever. I still only have one volume of Hell Girl. Just the one. Only one. One. In a box.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
You obviously misunderstood that paragraph. If I have to dumb it down this much for you, here it is:


My apologies for not comprehending your brilliance.

OniV2 wrote:
License both Blu-Ray and DVD -> Release DVD -> Wait for costs to be covered -> Release Blu-Ray.

No one said anything about both being produced at the same time. All it does is guarantee you have the Blu-Ray license for the set price it was at the time. You never know, the copyright holder may see that it sold well and bump up the price of a Blu-Ray license.


Or on the other hand, the cost of the license may go down as the show gets older still. Plus there's little financial sense in paying money for a license and then not doing anything with it, given that licenses do expire. Better to spend the money on it closer to the time you actually intend to do something with it.

OniV2 wrote:
Going by your logic, they'll never profit if they ever choose to release both formats - ever.


Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. Remember that this is an older show, that has had a previous release. And not as frequently requested for a re-release as, say, Sailor Moon. Sure, it might sell like hotcakes, but then again it also might not. Releasing in one format is a good way to test the waters there. If it does sell great, then you can say "hell yeah, we'll do a Blu-Ray release", and if it doesn't then you can say "just as well we didn't shell out for the Blu-Ray license".

Not to mention that getting a license and not using it to do a release tends to really annoy your potential customers. Something to be avoided as much as possible.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the wild speculation on the reasoning behind not doing a Blu-ray release can stop now. Unless someone has the numbers in front of them, it's really just going to keep going in circles.

Madman made a business decision. There will be no CCS Blu-Ray for the forseeable future. Deal with it.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think that people who already went to the trouble and bought releases from back several years ago will not likely buy this. Maybe some fans will pick this up either again or those that missed out before, but I think a blu release could potentially get nearly all of the fans who already bought it on DVD to get it again. Especially if it was a region free set.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
HimuraBattousai wrote:
My apologies for not comprehending your brilliance.


I apologise that my post made you respond to notions that I never brought forward, leading to me believing that I needed to dumb things down.

Quote:
Or on the other hand, the cost of the license may go down as the show gets older still. Plus there's little financial sense in paying money for a license and then not doing anything with it, given that licenses do expire. Better to spend the money on it closer to the time you actually intend to do something with it.


The HD 'remaster' is quite new, so that wouldn't make much sense. However, licenses are not so much short term that what I suggested isn't feasible. What Sly said was that they could do a Blu-Ray release, but won't due to production costs. So making up the production costs before producing is feasible. How did Madman see that they could produce CCS on DVD? Other releases went towards the license purchase and the DVD production costs - they didn't procure this money out of thin air for the sole purpose of CCS on DVD. Having the license and planning for it in the future makes more sense to me than 'we can't do it now, we'll think about it later' (which basically means 'we'll never do it').

Quote:
Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. Remember that this is an older show, that has had a previous release. And not as frequently requested for a re-release as, say, Sailor Moon. Sure, it might sell like hotcakes, but then again it also might not. Releasing in one format is a good way to test the waters there. If it does sell great, then you can say "hell yeah, we'll do a Blu-Ray release", and if it doesn't then you can say "just as well we didn't shell out for the Blu-Ray license".


You cannot 'test the waters' with something that's not actually going to entice the intended customer. I've already mentioned that the people that usually go for stuff like this are either fairly big fans of the series already and those that see a reason to upgrade to a superior format. I'll doubt that this release, when on DVD alone, will be enticeful enough to the general consumer. The random consumer that DOES end up buying this release is a lot less likely to double dip than die hard fans and folk like myself that often update the formats that have to new ones. It's not feasible. I mean, you're definitely not going to entice those looking for their media in an HD format.

So, you can't test the waters without actually testing the water.

Quote:
Not to mention that getting a license and not using it to do a release tends to really annoy your potential customers. Something to be avoided as much as possible.


Yeah, like obtaining an HD master and not actually following through with an HD release. Wink

StorminNorman wrote:
I think the wild speculation on the reasoning behind not doing a Blu-ray release can stop now. Unless someone has the numbers in front of them, it's really just going to keep going in circles.

Madman made a business decision. There will be no CCS Blu-Ray for the forseeable future. Deal with it.


Well, I thought that maybe the discussion in this thread would actually procure an answer or two, but apparently not. So, I may as well stop.

Claus wrote:
I think that people who already went to the trouble and bought releases from back several years ago will not likely buy this. Maybe some fans will pick this up either again or those that missed out before, but I think a blu release could potentially get nearly all of the fans who already bought it on DVD to get it again. Especially if it was a region free set.


If you want international attention, Blu-Ray is the way to go. Madman got some attention on U.S. boards due to picking up the license, but the lack of Blu-Ray seems to have stopped that interest flowing. Most threads about the license are pretty much dead now after that fact was revealed. The lack of dual-audio seemed to disappoint a fair few, as well, considering all 72 episodes were dubbed in the end.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
The HD 'remaster' is quite new, so that wouldn't make much sense.


It would make even less sense to me for them to increase the license cost later, but since neither of us actually have any hard data, shall we just call this one a draw and assume that Madman know what they're doing?

OniV2 wrote:
You cannot 'test the waters' with something that's not actually going to entice the intended customer. I've already mentioned that the people that usually go for stuff like this are either fairly big fans of the series already and those that see a reason to upgrade to a superior format.


Not everyone who is already a fan of the series was actually able to collect the previous release. I couldn't afford the R1 release when it came out, and certainly couldn't justify the price they were commanding on eBay later, so I am definitely going to buy this release on DVD. The fact that the old DVD release does go for such large amounts on eBay suggests to me that there is sufficient interest in a DVD re-release.

OniV2 wrote:
The lack of dual-audio seemed to disappoint a fair few, as well, considering all 72 episodes were dubbed in the end.


If memory serves, even the "full" dubbed version wasn't quite intact, which tends to make dual audio releases impractical.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
HimuraBattousai wrote:
It would make even less sense to me for them to increase the license cost later, but since neither of us actually have any hard data, shall we just call this one a draw and assume that Madman know what they're doing?


Why would it make less sense? Your next paragraph on higher prices being evidence of high demand pretty much backs my reasoning (despite that not actually being the reason for the high prices on Ebay).

I say we call this one a draw, but I'm still not up with stating Madman 'knows what they're doing'. If they did, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all (they'd also probably be releasing anime on Blu-Ray that more people probably want (so, not Yamada's First Time, Heaven's Lost Property, Sekirei, DBZ Level releases, Freedom, Rideback, High School of the Dead, To, Chobits, Trinity Blood and Xam'd))

Quote:
Not everyone who is already a fan of the series was actually able to collect the previous release. I couldn't afford the R1 release when it came out, and certainly couldn't justify the price they were commanding on eBay later, so I am definitely going to buy this release on DVD. The fact that the old DVD release does go for such large amounts on eBay suggests to me that there is sufficient interest in a DVD re-release.


If the anime market was a bowl of vegetables, and the Australian market was a snowpea, you'd be in one of the smaller peas within that snowpea.

The reason the R1 release goes for so much on Ebay is because it's the only western release of CCS thus far - and it's been discontinued. It's a collector's item at this point, and in no way reflects the demand for the product. If it was a high price, yet still being released? Then it'd be in high demand and worth fleshing out the variety of releases to increase competition and drive down price.

Quote:
If memory serves, even the "full" dubbed version wasn't quite intact, which tends to make dual audio releases impractical.


The footage wasn't edited, and all 72 episodes were dubbed. That's quite intact.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oni, I'm curious as to where you're pulling the 72 episode count from. Are you including the movies in that number?
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the original release and it's 70 episodes and two movies.

Also, I plan on getting Madman's release.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OniV2 wrote:
The footage wasn't edited, and all 72 episodes were dubbed.


I believe that if that had been the case the Madman release of Cardcaptors would have been bilingual: certainly, this is what we were told ten years ago, and it's not like Madman's ever been hugely backwards about rights and masters issues.

Also: http://www.madman.com.au/cardcaptors/

Madman released Cardcaptors english-only because a bilingual version was impracticable.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Tragic Man wrote:
Oni, I'm curious as to where you're pulling the 72 episode count from. Are you including the movies in that number?


That I am. Just something I've always done with CCS, due to the nature of how I originally watched it.

Nargun wrote:
I believe that if that had been the case the Madman release of Cardcaptors would have been bilingual: certainly, this is what we were told ten years ago, and it's not like Madman's ever been hugely backwards about rights and masters issues.


Also: http://www.madman.com.au/cardcaptors/

Madman released Cardcaptors english-only because a bilingual version was impracticable.


It was the case. We often get confused with the US broadcast release, which is where the anime was hugely butchered to fit their broadcast standards.

All 70 episodes were dubbed (as were both movies). Sure, dialogue was changed to fit the mentality of the time, but it wasn't footage-cutting changes like in the USA.

I've lived in Australia when Cardcaptors was airing. The version here was much better and certainly warrants being included, making it a dual-audio release. I also saw the version that aired later in Canada, which at the time was the U.S. butchering of the anime. Canada did get our version, but they also got the butchered one later. That's how I got to see that one, all 40 or so that actually got aired. It was horrible.
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