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Australian politics thread



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Australian politics thread
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The_Prophet
Doraemon


Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Mackay, North Queensland

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Australian politics thread Reply with quote
I haven't found a thread like this on the forum so I thought I'd start one up. Here's my little rant:

Australian politics this year has been atrocious, so much that I struggled to watch Question Time from the House of Representatives when I finished doing my study for the day. Most of the politicians on both sides act like children and use highly spun slogans and soundbites because a lot of them think the general public are stupid. We're not and we deserve a lot better from our Parliamentarians, regardless of your political colour. Juliar with saying the LNP want to "put a wrecking ball in our economy" and Phony saying "stop the boats".

The only decent people in both houses with a brain are Kevin Rudd, Anthony Albanese, John Faulkner, Ed Husic, Malcolm Turnbull and the Independents. While Rudd and Albanese are guilty of using slogans, especially Rudd, they are both very intelligent people who people have the time and day for.

I'm a recently new member of the ALP and I'm not surprised at the lack of young people in the party. People have dumbed down the national debate to cater to the yobbos in the suburbs and some of the conservatives in the bush to the point where it's just glorified amateur theatre. A lot of our traditional Labor supporters and members are defecting to the Greens and KAP because of a lack of principles, ideology and the major parties devoid of looking towards the future and big picture. It's high time voters and members of the respected major parties demanded reform, not just expect it. I'm critical of my party because I love it and I want the party to be competitive and win elections on revolutionary ideas that will shape our country for the better. At the moment I'm seeing a lack of vision from both parties that back in the day stood for something.

It's a different story for some of the state and territory branches of the parties e.g. WA Labor, so my rant isn't a criticism of them. QLD Labor which I'm apart of is getting back on its feet after being nearly wiped out at the last state election and because of the giant shock we got earlier this year, people here are waking up and rediscovering what we stand for.

Maxine McKew and Paul Keating said that politics is a 'contest of ideas', and I'm not seeing many federally at the present time.
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StorminNorman
Gillard-chan


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This will be a heavily moderated thread.

Next person to say "Juliar" or "Phony" gets permabanned. Use proper names if you want to be taken seriously (it's the equivalent of idiots who type "M$" instead of Microsoft.)
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Sethscar
Minawa Andou


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you've spent much time on Facebook at all, you would realise the general public are stupid.
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The_Prophet
Doraemon


Joined: 27 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sethscar wrote:
If you've spent much time on Facebook at all, you would realise the general public are stupid.


Very cynical indeed.
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Tachikoma
Shiki Tohno


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about Ginger and Flappy Ears?
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HimuraBattousai
Kagami Yagami


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tachikoma wrote:
What about Ginger and Flappy Ears?


From now on, those will also earn a ban. Their actual names only, please.
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Typhrus
Lin Minmay


Joined: 10 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Politics within the last few years have woeful and this is at both state and federal level. WA has an arrogant Premier (I would use something ruder, but I don't want to banned) who had a "let them eat cake" moment. Buswell doesn't exactly help the politics of the state either. I should note, I have been out of the loop from WA politics for the last 2 years, since I've moved to Tassi

Here in Tassi, the politics is much the same, only more stale. We've had a 'forrestry war' for the last 30 years in which both sides continually disagree with each for petty political points. We finally reach a compromise, but the upper house (which I will happily support as a house of review) decides to send the forrestry agreement to a select committee. Endagering federal government money (willing to support such a compromise) and both the conservationist movement and forrestry industry support the compromise. The only ones that don't are Will Hodgman and his Liberal party. People also tire of the Labor-Greens alliance here, admittedly they did have to make a large amount of hard decisions (cutting back harshly on health and police security to name 2 areas). I highly doubt we'll see majority governance down here due to the Hare-Clarke system, but we may see the strange bedfellows of Lib-Labor govt.

Anyway it appears (without going into the vitriol of federal politics) that it has a trickle down effect upon how people perceive politics. Australians have always had low opinions on politicians, but you know something is wrong whem more people start to support having an autocratic government.
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Knight of L-sama
Tina Foster


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You want dismal politics... try Queensland. The previous Labor government continued on past its sell by date more due to the lack of effective opposition than any virtues on their part.

So the Liberals and Nationals finally join into a single party (the LNP) and co-opt the Lord Mayor of Brisbane as the leader of the party. Not only do they get in with one of the most crushing electoral defeats in Australian history (Labor only held on to six seats).

Less than a year in though, they're only a couple of points ahead in the polls on a two-party preferred basis, the massive cuts to the public service sector (regardless whether you think they were justified or not, from a PR perspective they way they went about it was risky to say the least) and in the space of two weeks in November they had one minister retire to the back bench and two back benchers expelled from the party that are now sitting as independents.
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Typhrus
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh wow, that's quite impressive in alienating both sitting politicians and the voters of Queensland....I thought we had it bad here!

Also apparently the last federal election saw either the largest increase in informal voting patterns or the largest informal vote percentage seen in any Australian elections. I wonder how it'll go for the next federal election.
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StorminNorman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The hilarious part with Newman is that, despite the crushing loss at the last election, Labor will likely actually win the next one due to how badly he's run the state.

The only way he'll win is if he can do a Bjelke-Pedersen and gerrymander the hell out of the electorate.
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The_Prophet
Doraemon


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I might be biased here, but the LNP has broken nearly every promise on the platform they were elected on. The ALP here in Queensland stunk before they were crushed because of the same issue, but I don't think the selling of public assets and breaking their promise not to outweighs what Newman and his Government have done to the public sector by cutting jobs (my mum lost her job in QBuild in Mackay) and frequently changing the definition of 'frontline' services. Let's face it, we've basically given ourselves a one-party government that's probably as fascist as Bjelke-Petersen's, just with a different style of governing. At first I thought we'd have to wait 3-4 terms before the ALP stood a chance at re-claiming government but it looks like the LNP has done all the heavy lifting for us and we stand a good chance of making the Newman Government a one-term government. The incompetent politicians we have here on the Gold Coast e.g. Ros Bates and Verity Barton have made the situation on our side much better.
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drae
Kenshin Himura


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to clear things up, the Queensland LNP party is in no danger in the Polls. Anybody who takes an interest in politics will know just how BADLY Labor were running things up there. That is why they're not clawing back much ground. Last week's newspoll has the LNP enjoying a 56-44 lead (2 party preferred) and that's despite huge budget cuts sparking passionate protests and much hate. In fact, Labor's Primary vote has barely moved. The people deserting the LNP have been heading over to Katter's Australia Party. Newman also enjoys a 16 point lead as preferred Premier atm. What this basically means is that he's got most of the unpopular decisions out of the way early on in the term, with barely any consequence. Newman must be ecstatic. It's not doing Tony Abbot any favours though.

Qld's a little like NSW atm. It doesn't matter how badly Newman or O'Farrel perform, Labor have no hope in the next election. The only Liberal controlled state that's in danger is Victoria ... I think.

Quote:
When preferences are allocated on the basis of flows from the March state election, the two-party-preferred vote splits 56 to 44 per cent in favour of the LNP. The difference in the July-September Newspoll was 60 to 40 per cent to the LNP.

Bob Katter's Australian Party appears to have picked up a chunk of the vote shed by the LNP, lifting from 1 per cent to 4 per cent support, while the Greens are hovering on 8 per cent, basically where the party was in the previous survey.

However, Labor continues to trail the LNP badly, with its primary vote basically unchanged on 31 per cent, 11 points adrift of the LNP's 42 per cent.

In the comparison of who would make the better premier, Mr Newman retains a commanding lead of 45 per cent to 29 per cent over Ms Palaszczuk, one of the few Bligh government ministers to have survived the election drubbing of Queensland Labor nine months ago.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/newman-slump-set-to-boost-labors-attack-on-abbott/story-fn59niix-1226543773679

A reachTEL poll conducted a week earlier recorded the LNP primary vote at 42%. The exact same figure newspoll came back with.
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Knight of L-sama
Tina Foster


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
drae wrote:
What this basically means is that he's got most of the unpopular decisions out of the way early on in the term, with barely any consequence.


Actually I can't agree with that. For one thing... he's not finished. Now he's hacked off the police union and dropped hints of completely scrapping Fire & Rescue (merging it with the police force) and integrating Queensland Ambulance Service with the Health Department (which given how dysfunctional it remains is quite frankly terrifying).

Furthermore he's suggested getting rid of compulsory voting, which, given his massive majority, I find deeply, deeply disturbing.

The thing is, this isn't just the unions and the general populace that he's alienating. Far from no consequences, he's had a couple of backbenchers go independent on him (and one of them at least has not been polite about his dismissal) and long time Liberal supporter Clive Palmer has publicly and very vocally cut ties with the LNP and threatened to set up his own competing party.

It really does make me question the long term stability of both the LNP in general and the Newman government in particular.
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Nargun
Siegfried Kircheis


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Knight of L-sama wrote:
It really does make me question the long term stability of both the LNP in general and the Newman government in particular.


They simply don't have the talent. The young liberals have crippled liberal party recruitment for about the past thirty years, and with the old guard retiring over the past ten the lack of depth of talent is starting to show.
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drae
Kenshin Himura


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Knight of L-sama wrote:
Now he's hacked off the police union and dropped hints of completely scrapping Fire & Rescue (merging it with the police force) and integrating Queensland Ambulance Service with the Health Department (which given how dysfunctional it remains is quite frankly terrifying).


Ouch. That's quite ... retarded of him. I'll be interested to see just how long he can get away with this. With no Opposition and Senate to keep him in line, Qld may be in for a rough ride.

Knight of L-sama wrote:

Furthermore he's suggested getting rid of compulsory voting, which, given his massive majority, I find deeply, deeply disturbing.


I was cheering Very Happy.Forcing people to vote just results in (best case scenario) tons of informal votes and (worst case scenario) a lot of eeny-meeny-miney voting, which distorts election results. New Zealand, England, America, Canada all have voluntary voting (NZ has compulsary registration though) and work just fine. I get sick of voting for Councils, though, because I don't recognise anybody's name.You travel all the way to the election office to be confronted with a bunch of names you've never heard of before. I HATE voting for Councils. I wish Australia had voluntray voting. Sometimes I'm lazy and just couldn't give a toss... but I don't want the fine Sad

Knight of L-sama wrote:
and long time Liberal supporter Clive Palmer has publicly and very vocally cut ties with the LNP and threatened to set up his own competing party.


Yeah, but Palmer is crazy who's only good for a laugh. It was more damaging keeping him in the party. Palmer also wanted to set up a rival league to the FFA because he was pissed at Lowy... if memory serves.

Nargun wrote:
They simply don't have the talent. The young liberals have crippled liberal party recruitment for about the past thirty years, and with the old guard retiring over the past ten the lack of depth of talent is starting to show.


Lack of talent in politics in general. Liberals membership has gone into freefall, but Labor's is actally worse. The only party which can be happy with their numbers are the greens.

Take Labor. Before the PM came out and challenged her party to recurit 8000 new members, they had around 37000 members nation-wide. Now they have about 44000 (It was 50000 when Rudd won his election.) Compare this to the Liberals and, while you'll see thair membership also plummeting, they have 78000 members, not counting nationals (which have almost as many.) Both parties are closing branch offices by the hundreds. The Liberals are having trouble recruiting youngsters because of their conservative views, but Labor are having a similar problem because most of their traditional young talent are heading for Greener pastures (bleagh).

Quote:
The rank and file of both major parties has been decimated. So much so that just 1 per cent of Australians are now involved in political parties, compared with the 5 per cent who now participate in environmental and animal welfare groups. The ALP's membership is half what it was at the end of World War II, and in recent years has gone into something nearing freefall. Between 2002 and 2010, its membership fell from 50,000 to 37,000. A decade ago, the party had 1,140 branches. Now it is close to dipping below 1,000. Branch-stacking has long been used be factional leaders to ensure their favoured candidates win pre-selection. Given the dwindling membership, branch stripping has been identified by party elders as just as much a problem.

The Liberal Party is facing the same membership crisis. Consider the state of the party in one of its traditional strongholds, Victoria. At the end of the war, it could boast 49,000 members. By 2008, it was just 13,373. Almost 90 per cent of members were over 60 years old, while just 6 per cent were under 30. This had led to the closure of 84 branches, almost a fifth of the total, and the party's efforts at recruiting new members had not been hugely successful. Less than half of the recruits who had joined the party since 2000 had renewed their membership.

Nor have the major political parties ever faced such stiff competition for talent. The Greens have attracted talented young progressives such as the West Australian Senator Scott Ludlam, who in previous generations might have gravitated towards Labor. There are online activist groups, too, for instance GetUp!, which now has more members 380,000 than all the political parties combined. Its founders are two Australian Harvard graduates, Jeremy Heimans and David Madden, who saw in online activism more potential than conventional political careers. Starved of new members, naturally the parties are bereft of new talent


http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/is-the-political-talent-pool-shrinking/320/
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StorminNorman
Gillard-chan


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
drae wrote:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/newman-slump-set-to-boost-labors-attack-on-abbott/story-fn59niix-1226543773679


I'm sorry, but after their recent article involving an astrologer predicting the real estate market, I can't take The Holt Street Bowling Club seriously as a news source anymore.

Also note that Newspoll didn't poll during a period where ReachTEL showed a rise in Labor's primary vote. The recent results are similar, but ReachTEL track more closely with reality, from what I can tell.
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drae
Kenshin Himura


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
StorminNorman wrote:
I'm sorry, but after their recent article involving an astrologer predicting the real estate market, I can't take The Holt Street Bowling Club seriously as a news source anymore.

Also note that Newspoll didn't poll during a period where ReachTEL showed a rise in Labor's primary vote. The recent results are similar, but ReachTEL track more closely with reality, from what I can tell.


Laughing I can't argue with that.

But ReachTel doesn't publish 2-party-preferred results, so it takes a bit more work for people to interpret, and I have an allergy to work. The idea of work drives me crazy and makes me want to eat my own genitals.

The fact that Newspoll usually gives a higher percentage of votes to the LNP had absolutely nothing to do with my decision to quote them Wink *whistles*
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Knight of L-sama
Tina Foster


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
drae wrote:
I was cheering Very Happy.Forcing people to vote just results in (best case scenario) tons of informal votes and (worst case scenario) a lot of eeny-meeny-miney voting, which distorts election results. New Zealand, England, America, Canada all have voluntary voting (NZ has compulsary registration though) and work just fine. I get sick of voting for Councils, though, because I don't recognise anybody's name.You travel all the way to the election office to be confronted with a bunch of names you've never heard of before. I HATE voting for Councils. I wish Australia had voluntray voting. Sometimes I'm lazy and just couldn't give a toss... but I don't want the fine Sad


Council voting is easy for me. Last two elections I've only had to vote for the Mayor since my local councillor ran unopposed. And I like our current mayor so I don't consider it a problem to vote for him.

Of course I live five minutes walk from a polling station and make a habit of getting up there early and voting before the lines get too long.

At the state level though this just smells fishy. Given the massive majority that the LNP holds in the Queensland Parliament, brining up the idea of scrapping compulsory voting now, of all times, just smacks of attempted disenfranchisement.
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HimuraBattousai
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
drae wrote:
I was cheering. Forcing people to vote just results in (best case scenario) tons of informal votes and (worst case scenario) a lot of eeny-meeny-miney voting, which distorts election results. New Zealand, England, America, Canada all have voluntary voting (NZ has compulsary registration though) and work just fine. I get sick of voting for Councils, though, because I don't recognise anybody's name.You travel all the way to the election office to be confronted with a bunch of names you've never heard of before. I HATE voting for Councils. I wish Australia had voluntray voting. Sometimes I'm lazy and just couldn't give a toss... but I don't want the fine


I have to disagree here. To begin with, I would argue that America's electoral system is horribly broken, so shouldn't be held up as an example of voluntary voting working.

Also, with regards to eeny-meeny-miney-mo voting, I don't believe that would distort results any more than a vocal minority in a voluntary voting system would. Really, I don't see what the problem with compulsory voting is. It means no-one can be deliberately excluded from the electoral process, which to my mind is a more important issue than some people getting precious about not wanting to vote who think voting informal is too much effort.

Besides which... who's running the country(/state/local council) has an effect on your life. Why the hell would you not want to have your say in who it should be? Even if you don't really like any of the options, surely one of them is less objectionable than the others.
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StorminNorman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's worth pointing out that informal voting is not necessarily an indicator of voter disinterest.
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drae
Kenshin Himura


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
HimuraBattousai wrote:

Besides which... who's running the country(/state/local council) has an effect on your life. Why the hell would you not want to have your say in who it should be? Even if you don't really like any of the options, surely one of them is less objectionable than the others.


I am having my say. I'm saying that (atm) I don't care who's elected to my Local Council Razz

The candidates for Local Council in my electorate have been ... vomit inducing for well over a decade now. I no longer have the youthful enthusiasm required to spend hours on the internet trying to figure out which candidate is marginally better than the rest. I believe our current mayor is a corrupt man who freely admits to breaking the rules and has already been suspended multiple times from civic office. However, he's widely thought to be the best of an utterly uninspiring lot. Why? I have no idea, and personally I don't care. I've lost interest.

So if voting was voluntary, I wouldn't bother voting. No point really. They're all **** and I'm no longer interested in quibbling over the degrees. It's Australia. I'm embracing my laziness Very Happy

HimuraBattousai wrote:
Also, with regards to eeny-meeny-miney-mo voting, I don't believe that would distort results any more than a vocal minority in a voluntary voting system would. Really, I don't see what the problem with compulsory voting is.It means no-one can be deliberately excluded from the electoral process, which to my mind is a more important issue than some people getting precious about not wanting to vote who think voting informal is too much effort.


Deliberately excluded? That's never been an issue in most countries with voluntary voting. I understand it's a bit of an issue in America atm but they're batshit crazy up there...

The reason we have democratic elections is to allow everyone to have a say in who should lead our country. If you have nothing to say, than that also should be respected.

What's wrong with compulsary elections is that it promotes random voting. Random voting distorts results because it allows ballots that don't reflect anybody's opinion to influence tallies. Therefore, any results you obtain woun't be an accurate reflection of the will of the community,the results have been contaminated by the votes of those who don't care(I realise that results are also contaminated by people who have cast their votes incorrectly, which means their voice won't be heard etc etc, but compulsary voting greatly expands the inaccuracy.)

This is different to a vocal minority casting votes in a voluntary system, because their votes are still a part of the will of the community and should be heard. Just like the voices who oppose them should be heard, and just like those who have nothing to say should be recognised as having nothing to say.

This is why most countries in the world, includng Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, New Zealand, England, Europe, Canada, Japan etc etc all have voluntary voting. It's worth noting that many countries with voluntary systems have higher turn outs than we do, and their tallies aren't contaminated by blind/donkey/random voting.

Only 10 countries in the world enforce compulsary voting. Countries like Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil, Ecuador, Congo ... and of course, Australia. We're not exactly in wonderful company there. Good company if you were talking about soccer though...
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Nargun
Siegfried Kircheis


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
drae wrote:
What's wrong with compulsary elections is that it promotes random voting. Random voting distorts results because it allows ballots that don't reflect anybody's opinion to influence tallies.


In fact, because random voting is random it's randomly distributed nationwide. One seat might randomly swing one percent left, another might swing one percent right: on average the overall result is accurate [and this remains true even when you look at per-seat winners: because the swing is random in direction the number of seats with X% error to the left can be expected to match the number of seats with X% error to the Right: a few seats might erroneously swap hands, but you'd expect the number swapping in each direction to be essentially the same. So it cancels out.

If that still bothers you you can do what tasmania does print a dozen ballots for each electorate each with the candidates in a different order.

The donkey vote is noise. Noise is random, eliminated by averaging. Irrelevant for all but the smallest turnouts.
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JESTER
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ever since the O'Farrell government came into power in NSW, there has been a lot more problems. A lot of it can be linked back to the ALP esp with the Eddie Obeid saga still going on. However the new major issue is the pre-school price rises which are forcing parents not to have their children attend it.

Just like some other decisions they've made since in power, they're blaming the Federal Government and they in turn are blaming the NSW Government.

The losers in this are the children who should be attending pre-school, but aren't due to their parents not being able to afford the costs.

The O'Farrell Government became a laughing stock when they misplaced 1 Billion Dollars. They made out that they were in debt, when in fact they were in surplus and refused to scale back the cuts.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/1b-error-nsw-swings-from-deficit-to-surplus-20121031-28j8s.html

http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/preschool-numbers-drop-as-parents-struggle-to-pay-fees-20120607-1zz3g.html
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StorminNorman
Gillard-chan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There needs to be a statute of limitations on blaming the previous government for your government's problems. Bailleu's been in power for over two years now and his idiot ministers still blame Bracks/Brumby.

You get six months. After that, it's your problem to deal with, and you need to stop pretending you can't do anything about it. You're the government, for crying out loud. You can do everything about it if you wanted to.
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Typhrus
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To the best of my knowledge local elections are voluntary votes, so you don't have to attend.

Voluntary voting is great in theory as it produces 'more accurate' representations of the electorate. However, what really occurs is that the only people who vote are those with political interests, elites of society and those with business interests. The average joe sometimes struggle to see how government makes decisions that do quite literally govern thier lives. I suspect thats why Australians seem to have the myth that pollies do nothing Razz
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StorminNorman
Gillard-chan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Typhrus wrote:
To the best of my knowledge local elections are voluntary votes, so you don't have to attend.


They're compulsory in Victoria, but it's all done by postal vote, so it's easy as hell to do.
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Gouki
Vanilla H


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
StorminNorman wrote:
You get six months. After that, it's your problem to deal with, and you need to stop pretending you can't do anything about it. You're the government, for crying out loud. You can do everything about it if you wanted to.


This would work if it didn't seem like Australians politicians have a mantra of "it's future politicians problem".
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HimuraBattousai
Kagami Yagami


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gouki wrote:
This would work if it didn't seem like Australians politicians have a mantra of "it's future politicians problem".


Well, currently it seems like all problems are the previous government's fault and only future governments can solve it, not present ones, so something's gotta change. They can complain about how it's the previous government's fault as much as they want, as long as they effing fix things.
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Soul Master Kaze
Shinji Ikari


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
StorminNorman wrote:
They're compulsory in Victoria, but it's all done by postal vote, so it's easy as hell to do.


Still didn't stop me from forgetting; I had the completed ballot in my car, for God's sake.

The fine still hasn't arrived, though.
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Typhrus
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
StorminNorman wrote:
[..]



They're compulsory in Victoria, but it's all done by postal vote, so it's easy as hell to do.


Huh, didn't know that and I'm reasonably knowledgable in Australian politics. Thanks for that.

I will admit I've (so far) never voted in local elections, but am always keen to vote in state and federal elections. How many here vote below the line for upper house elections?

Thankfully down here, ideas to abolish the upper house here have subsided over Christmas and the worst fires in Tasmania since 1967. I would be incredibly worried about democracy in Tasmania if it went back to a single house of parliament.
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Knight of L-sama
Tina Foster


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Typhrus wrote:
I will admit I've (so far) never voted in local elections, but am always keen to vote in state and federal elections. How many here vote below the line for upper house elections?


Ugh, I vote above the line, mostly because hunting down information on prospective senators who are campaigning across the entire state as opposed is a lot trickier than for a handful of candidates for local member.

Of course that's just federal. Queensland doesn't have an upper house.

Typhrus wrote:
Thankfully down here, ideas to abolish the upper house here have subsided over Christmas and the worst fires in Tasmania since 1967. I would be incredibly worried about democracy in Tasmania if it went back to a single house of parliament.


Back? I thought that the states all had bicameral legislatures even back when they were British colonies and Queensland was the odd one out for abolishing its upper house.

And stop rubbing it in.
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Nargun
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Knight of L-sama wrote:
Back? I thought that the states all had bicameral legislatures even back when they were British colonies and Queensland was the odd one out for abolishing its upper house.


But when the queensland upper house was abolished it was made up of people appointed by the government, and was entirely useless. Other states were appointed, or elected by various systems that were all about equally useless and often only let rich people vote; this didn't start to change until the seventies.

So even if you'd have kept it it would have stayed useless for another fifty years. And the chances of Joh making it useful would have been pretty slim, so more like sixty, seventy years of useless upper house.
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JESTER
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
With the bushfires covering a very large section of NSW, the Daily Telegragh had a story on the NSW Government slashing spending last year on the RFS and continuing to do so this year.

Barry O'Farrell poses for photos with the firefighters only for the spending cuts to come out in the open.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/slash-and-burn-as-government-cuts-firefighting-funds/story-e6freuy9-1226551473776
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The Tragic Man
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The federal election date has been announced: 14 September. You have been warned.
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Nargun
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
.... genius.
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drae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
September 14... when you'll be too wrapped up in footy finals to give a toss
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Jimbo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can see the libs win this time round the way the polls saying about labour. I think every one has enough of labour's in fighting.
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Nargun
Siegfried Kircheis


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
One of the reasons the republicans lost the US election was because they didn't realise that the republican-party-faithful formed a distinct subset of the population, had distinct perspectives on the-solutions-to-the-problems-faced than the population as a whole,

Groupthink, in essence. "I think this, and everyone I know thinks this, so obviously everyone thinks this".

[one would have thought that you could tell that the general US population didn't think like the republican faithful from the simple fact that most people aren't and weren't rusted-on republican voters, but no. Watching the various constructions of national identity playing out is actually kind of interesting, as long as noone starts doing what you might call cosmetic surgery on the body politic.]

You see the same thing in the UK: the tories are going on about issues with regard to europe, say, that don't have a lot of pull beyond the core reliable tory voters. The US and the UK have voluntary voting so you can have pull on elections by encouraging or discouraging various groups' votes. In australia we have compulsory voting and there's simply no play here: high passion from a narrow bloc doesn't get you anywhere.

And the raw numbers are not looking good for Abbott: he lost the last election by a razor-thin margin, sure, but all that means is he doesn't need that many more new voters. But he still needs new voters, and I'm really not seeing anything he's doing that'll appeal to anyone that won't already vote for him.

[see also Campbell Newmann's carryon in queensland, which is seriously going to affect lib reputations for honesty.]
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Typhrus
Lin Minmay


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Knight of L-sama wrote:
[..]



Back? I thought that the states all had bicameral legislatures even back when they were British colonies and Queensland was the odd one out for abolishing its upper house.

And stop rubbing it in.


Ah sorry I was taken a bit too literally there. I meant "back" as in a backward step for the politics down here. Tassi has always had 2 houses of parliament and yes, you are correct that Queensland is the outlier in only having a unicameral parliamentary system.

Also I was rubbing what in? I'm genuinely confused here, so if I did something to offend, sorry!


The Tragic Man wrote:
The federal election date has been announced: 14 September. You have been warned.


I do hope that the election campaign doesn't start in earnest, otherwise its going to be an exceedingly tirering to watch. Particularly with the higher than expected mudflinging thats likely to occur.

Also in other news Isobel Redmond resigned as the SA Lib opposition leader. The media seems to enjoy speculating wether or not Alexander Downer is looking to run for the South Australian parliament. If he isn't actively seeking a position in parliament there, he might become (or already is) a behind the scenes powerbroker.
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StorminNorman
Gillard-chan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


I just want to point out that this is a man who is being offered as a legitimate candidate for the Prime Minister of Australia.
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Soul Master Kaze
Shinji Ikari


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm....not sure that that's the best idea that the Australian public has ever had.

I've still got a bad taste in my mouth from the last Liberal government. Y'know...the one that instituted WorkChoices.
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Jimbo
Kuu


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I hope tony abbot dont bring back work choices again. he is raving about dissing the carbon tax, the mining tax, inresting to see how he deal with the boat people problems.
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Nargun
Siegfried Kircheis


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Soul Master Kaze wrote:
I'm....not sure that that's the best idea that the Australian public has ever had.


It wasn't our idea. By-and-large the population [and half the party room!] wanted turnbull.
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Kenshin Himura


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nargun wrote:
It wasn't our idea. By-and-large the population [and half the party room!] wanted turnbull.


If the public had their way, Rudd and Turnbull would be the two leaders of the political parties. Instead we have Gillard and Abbot, both fairly despised people. Just one of many reasons why people have little interest in politics these days.

Soul Master Kaze wrote:
I've still got a bad taste in my mouth from the last Liberal government. Y'know...the one that instituted WorkChoices.


Oh dear Rolling Eyes
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Aussie-Byron
Kenji Harima


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
StorminNorman wrote:


I just want to point out that this is a man who is being offered as a legitimate candidate for the Prime Minister of Australia.



I just want to point out that this is a woman who is being offered as a legitimate candidate for the Prime Minister of Australia.
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Soul Master Kaze
Shinji Ikari


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I still prefer the second photo.
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drae
Kenshin Himura


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A number of marginal seats in Western Sydney may fall to the Coalition in the next election.

Why is this important? For those who don't live in NSW, Western Sydney is Labor heartland. They've held these seats for 50 years or so. It'll be a massive body blow for Labor if they lose these seats, and a further indication that they are rapidly losing their base.

Also, the Obeid saga and the ICAC meetings are killing the Labor brand in NSW.
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drae
Kenshin Himura


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gillard's going to have trouble getting her message to the people this year with so many distractions going around. You have the ongoing Craig Thompson saga, the Obeid saga drowning out everything else in NSW (despite it being state Labor and not federal) ... and, of course, you're going to have this going on all year:

Quote:
Support for Kevin Rudd among Labor MPs appears to have grown, placing the former prime minister potentially within striking distance of Prime Minister Julia Gillard in the event of another challenge.

Estimates put his backing as high as 45 votes out of 102 Caucus members, although Ms Gillard's supporters insist it is lower.

The shift in sentiment follows Labor's trouble-plagued start to the election year, which has shaken MPs and fuelled perceptions of disorder.

With her leadership now facing greater scrutiny, Ms Gillard on Monday pleaded for loyalty.

At the first ALP caucus meeting for the year, she blamed internal disloyalty for some of Labor's problems, revealing that journalists had told her that MPs had been waiting for the return from holidays to complain about her leadership.

One caucus member, however, said Ms Gillard ''needed to look closer to home''. The MP said Ms Gillard had enjoyed the backing of most MPs during 2012, but this support had noticeably weakened on the back of ''a terrible start'' to the election year.

A series of self-inflicted political wounds has sapped morale and reignited talk about whether anything would be achieved by another leadership change.

These blows include the clumsily handled dumping of Northern Territory senator Trish Crossin and the timing of the election announcement, which was followed closely by the resignations of two senior ministers.

Ms Gillard's reduced support, confirmed to Fairfax Media by multiple sources from both sides of the caucus, raises the possibility of a second leadership challenge by Mr Rudd, although his supporters say no move is imminent.

Estimates put Mr Rudd's numbers as high as 45 votes - a figure regarded as ''not unrealistic'' by a key Gillard backer, who put it ''closer to 40''.

While Mr Rudd would need 52 votes to win, it is thought that backing in the mid-40s would be enough to build momentum in a leadership ballot.

He received just 31 votes to Ms Gillard's 71 in the bruising leadership ballot a year ago. In the immediate aftermath of that challenge, Ms Gillard's backers believed her two-to-one margin would be sufficient to end the Rudd threat.

However, the former foreign minister has not only remained in politics but has recently begun to ramp up his public profile.

Last week he returned to the the Seven Network's Sunrise program, appearing with the opposition's Joe Hockey. That pairing reprised his regular appearances on the high-rating show that helped to make him a household name in 2006 - a key factor in his rise to the Labor leadership that year.

Labor MPs are particularly concerned about the decline in Ms Gillard's personal standing compared with that of Opposition Leader Tony Abbott.

According to Newspoll, Ms Gillard's standing as preferred prime minister has deteriorated by 4 points to 41 per cent, while Mr Abbott's has climbed by 6 points to 39 per cent in the two weeks since the previous poll.

The poll also showed that the number of people satisfied with her performance has dropped, while the number of those dissatisfied has risen. The opposite was the case for Mr Abbott.


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/numbers-shifting-back-to-rudd-20130204-2duq0.html
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Aussie-Byron
Kenji Harima


Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.news.com.au/business/mining-tax-raises-126m-so-far/story-e6frfm1i-1226573638482
What an absolute joke Labor is.
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Soul Master Kaze
Shinji Ikari


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Elaborate.
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